very un stable front end

[patgas]

whent out today rear end pretty good,but forks heeeeeeeeeeeeelp set compression to about 2 turns from all way out and that feels great but when riding front seems very unstable,over rocks and when trying to ride:applause fast hav no grip,and actually lost font in a pretty spectacular way.

 

[DrinkBeer]

I am not an expert but I love my set up. I have a TE 450 '07. Sag set to 4.5 (on the lower end I know) and have everything 5 clicks softer. rear and forks. compression and rebound. I am 210 with no gear. very happy. If you make your rear soft and leave the front alone that could cause the front to wash. Also, how you ride and where you sit on the bike.

 

[Mike Kay]

Patgas i would like to help with ideas but need more infomation.

Is the sag set correctly?

How is the front end unstable? Vibrations? Shaking? To easy to turn? To hard to turn?

You mention the comression was adjusted, but what about the rebound? You have to adjust both, they effect each other.

What year and make of bike? How much do you weigh?

 

[patgas]

ok

13 stone 08 450 front seems very unpredictable when you start to go fast ,no grip lost it once today set compression to about 4 clicks roughly from completely soft (all way out) and wound re bound another 4 clicks on the menus from standard ,forks are right up in clamps ? heeeeeeeeeeelp really not got any confidence in it at all sorry sag is correct .

 

[Mike Kay]

Im guessing either:

the rebound was set the opposite of what it should have been

-or-

something unrelated to the forks. (tire tread, pressure, wheel bearing, reversed front and rear wheel spacers-been there-or some other weird thing.)

The bike should not have trouble going in a straight line at speed.

 

[Fast1]

What is the terrain like where you ride and what front tire are you using? air pressure?

What speed do you notice the front of the bike wash out at?

 

[meslowmelive]

I am having same sort of problems only on downhills , its a combination of things i reckon , Metzler MC5 front tyre has large sidewall grips 1 1/2 - 2 '' long that may be gripping edge of ruts and on rocks as i go down and pulling wheel to side , my gps is getting tangled in my speedo and front brake cable as i compress the forks down.

i lowered my bike 2'' and still haven't got the geometry sorted yet , rear sag may be to hard and putting to much pressure on the front end this is more pronounced when going downhills .

as you can see I've got some things i think it is getting there i changed the front tyre to sort that if it was the case , put more sag in the rear shock as it could have benefited from some more sag to stop the rear kicking up on logs and ruts when hitting at speed so that also takes some pressure off the front end , i also dropped my forks down some through the triples as they were up 1'' to help lower the bike. no sense thinking about it you have to make some changes to see what works it's getting better all the time .

 

[patgas]

rebound

pirelli tyre about 10 psi,forks pushed up through clamps,are you saying i need less rebound -,not sure exactly what speed (concentrating on keeping the front end up right)great on fire roads just unstable on anything uneven/rocky

 

[dags]

Pat, seen it posted here after the PM, so hope it`s ok i`ll put it here too!
BTW the standard front tyre is a POS.

G`day Pat, both areas are so open to trial & error & personal preference.
The 08 responds very differently to gearing than the earlier models, i found in single track & snotty hills the 14/50 is a great compromise between that & being able to skoot along the fire trails as well, the 14/53 & even the 13/50 etc is too aggresive & is hard to get the torque to drive nicely, just wants to lift the front too much. They`re great though for Pony Express & sprint type natural terrain.

The front end on mine is twitchy, but i run the forks right up high in the clamps (20mm) but i`m happy to get the fast steering. I spent a day playing with all the clickers & sag etc, came in at 100mm sag, 2 clicks softer on the front (rebound & comp) 4 clicks softer low speed & 2 harder high speed on the rear and it`s great. I`m 6ft & 100kgs. It works better than the 07 i spent $1500 on setting up.

Good luck with it & hope this helps a little

 

[Mike Kay]

pirelli tyre about 10 psi,forks pushed up through clamps,are you saying i need less rebound -,not sure exactly what speed (concentrating on keeping the front end up right)great on fire roads just unstable on anything uneven/rocky

Now we are getting somewhere.

1) Put the fork tubes flush with the top of the triple clamps. This will help stabilize things. Its amazing how 3--5mm higher or lower will affect the front end. Once you get the suspension dialed in, you can play around with lowering the fork tubes to speed up the turning, if needed.

2) I take it the bike is 'deflecting' off of rocks? You should be able to ride over a rock the size of a grapefruit and barely feel it. Your front suspension is to stiff. Less compression will help (you should have just enough compression to bottom out on the biggest jump you will ever ride), and slow down the rate the forks return up.
Most guys run with far to much compression, and far to fast rebound.
Go out to the garage, hold the front brake, and push down on the forks. Are they springing right back? Or are they slowly returning? Slow is good, unless you are a pro.
3) Write down, on a paper or sticker on the bike, the exact settings of compression and rebound you now have. Then start backing them down. If you get confused, things get worse, you can just go back to the stock settings and start over.
4) Huskys come with very stiff springs. It wouldnt surprise me if you need zero clicks of compression. In fact thats probably where you should start, and just focus on the rebound, adjusting until things get better.
You can get to the point where there is not enough rebound--meaning its so slow the fork never gets to be fully extended. This is called 'packing'. Check for it on downhills, where the weight is on the front of the fork, especially on downhill braking bumps. Adjust the rebound accordingly. If the bike is packing, it will feel very very stiff, and there will only be 4-6 or so inches of travel being used. you will then need adjust for a bit faster rebound.

Just some ideas for ya.

 

[patgas]

thanks

will give that a wirl,good info,if you hav any info on setting shock correctly that would be very appreciated cheers.by backing them down do you mean adding compression and rebound ? dont want to sound thick but suspension isnt my thing as my last bike came set up and found it bang on.

 

[Zim]

I had my bike worked over by the local guru,the first time I opted out of riding his test track,stupid move,it handled like crap till I got the clickers right,cutting into riding time but eventually sorted with a couple of calls to him,the next time I rode the track with him watching and in 5 minutes it was magic,but make sure you getting tired does not effect the testing,the main adjustment he made was to the rebound clickers,they also effect compression a bit,and the last move was dropping the fork 1 line through to put more weight on the front to hold a rut better,his name is Terry Hays,well known local in OZ,the point being find a little test track and be at it

 

[Coffee]

Terry Hays is well known. Heard many good things about him!

 

[patgas]

right

wound compression all way out,and i am 14 from seated (anti clockwise on re bound) i think there is only 18 any way,going to slide forks back up tubes as you recomended and give it a wirl cheersmaybe just maybe whent wrong way on rebound? will persevere untill i get it right,when i had bike i whent 4 further out than standard on back shock,rebound,high speed and low speed compression was that right thing to do ? and set sag correct

 

[mxracernumber1]

I'm not sure if the 08's come with the same tire set-up as the 07's, but there is a problem with the '07. If you're riding hard-packed stuff (like clay after no rainfall for 3 months) the front tire is virtually useless. It is much be better suited to mud/soft terrtain. I'm not particularly crazy about it and the single row of knoobies down the center is all that makes contact on really hard surfaces. I dropped the p.s.i. in mine and the condition improved, but is still not great. The tires were waaaay overinflated from my dealer. Get yourself a tire that better suites the terrain as well as a heavy duty tube and run it at 17 p.s.i. Also, my biggest complaint about the bike is fork. I like a softer back end and a medium front end. I can't seem to get my front end quite soft enough. As soon as Christmas has past, mine is getting a revavle. No matter what I do, there just isn't enough adjustment to get the front to stick like I want it to. The other problem is the high-speed head shake. At 75+, I have a hard time keeping it in line. The power keeps the front light & end significant bump at that speed jerks the front end badly. A steering stablizer is going to round-off the front end mods after Christmas. Just can't seem to get it where I want it without the major mods, but a new front tire would make a big difference. Only reason I have not replaced mine is the weather. It's usual for us to get much more rain in the winter down here & the trails are black mud. When we get back into full swing in Jan., everywhere we ride will be black thick mud, so the front stays until next summer.

 

[Mike Kay]

cheersmaybe just maybe whent wrong way on rebound? will persevere untill i get it right,

I am thinking the same thing. You might have gone the wrong way. Some perseverance will pay off. We all have to go thru this fine tuning of the suspension. But its SO worth getting it right.

when i had bike i whent 4 further out than standard on back shock,rebound,high speed and low speed compression was that right thing to do ? and set sag correct

Lets get the forks sorted out, then we can work on the rear. The process is the same. Back out (soften) the compression, then play with the rebound.

 

[patgas]

suspension

cool top man mike,will try soon as possible and keep you informed,i wound rebound out like you said to get forks to come up slowly,then wound them back in to see where i was at with standard settings but i was only 14 out and standard is 12 ,i thought i had allready gone four but we will see might hav gott confused somewhere,sort of getting my head arround it know,your help is much appreciated thanks

 

[MattR]

i wound rebound out like you said to get forks to come up slowly...

Perhaps you just mistyped, but you indicate that you turned the rebound "out" to make the forks come up "slowly". This is backwards.

Just some reference information:
Turning the screw adjusters out (counter-clockwise) will decrease the damping and make the suspension travel faster. Therefore, if you turn the rebound screw outward, then it will rebound faster. If you turn the compression screw outward, then it will compress faster. Conversely, turning the screw adjusters in (clockwise) will increase the damping and make the suspension travel slower.

If you get confused on what is clockwise or counter-clockwise, just remember that the screw adjusters have righthand threads. So, tightening the screw adjusters in will cause the internal needle to close/shutoff the flow of oil. Shutoff the flow of oil = increased damping/resistance. Turning the screws out is like "opening up a faucet" and letting the oil flow freely.

Hope I did not cause more confusion.

 

[Fast1]

well said MattR and right on the money

 

[meslowmelive]

You can get to the point where there is not enough rebound--meaning its so slow the fork never gets to be fully extended. This is called 'packing'. Check for it on downhills, where the weight is on the front of the fork, especially on downhill braking bumps. Adjust the rebound accordingly. If the bike is packing, it will feel very very stiff, and there will only be 4-6 or so inches of travel being used. you will then need adjust for a bit faster rebound.

Just some ideas for ya.

i liked this suggestion as it was what was happening it was stiff on downhills it worked a treat i backed off - my rebound 2 clicks both sides and the front end is better on downhills ,better everywhere actually, much plusher and not as harsh , but i did increase my rear sag from 90mm to 105mm as well ,much softer , and seamed to track straighter i could go quicker and it held its line better didn't deflect or kick on rocks ,ruts, as bad . i also got rid of the Metzler MC5 and replaced with a Michelin star cross MS3 much better for where i use it .i was more confident everywhere which ment speed