TE630 strange engine lock-up

[SilverBullet]

Had a very strange issue with my TE630 a few days ago.

Was riding at an easy pace for about an hour, not overheating and running perfect. Stopped for a break, put tranny into neutral and then turned off bike with ignition key. Approx 5 minutes later went to start it, engine cranked about ¾ revolution and then “clank/clunk” and nothing. Hit the starter button again and wouldn’t budge just a split second “unk” and then nothing like it hit resistance or just no juice to turn the starter. Subsequent tries and it repeated the exact same.

Now to make a long story short I’ll bypass all the troubleshooting done and attempts to restart/bump start since none were the issue. What got the bike started was putting it in second gear and pushing the bike in reverse for about one foot turning the engine backwards!!! After that the bike fired right up like nothing had happened and since then I have done another 3 days and 900 miles of riding without any hint of re-occurance.

So what could have possibly happened and what is the risk of it happening again? Most will say the engine was hydro-locked but how and with what? Or something internal to engine that lodged and locked it (hard for me to believe) or somebody mentioned maybe automatic compression release malfunction (do we have one). At 12.5:1 compression I doubt if the starter could turn over the engine without one. Also could a lean condition be a contributor? My first time riding in high altitude and pulling in a lot more air. Is there a sensor to detect altitude and supply reading to ECU to adjust A/F? Will contact a couple Husky dealers (still under warranty) but looking for quick advice and any ideas here first

If it didn’t happen to me I probably wouldn’t believe it and suspect something was not being fully disclosed by the person posting this. No water involved at all, no fuel flooding, no overheating, no running issues, etc. Just a normal shut down and restart attempt.

Background:

• At the time bike had ~7,800 miles and 170 hours.
• Had just checked the valves 700 miles prior. Exactly spot on to last valve check, no change at all and all gaps still centered within specs.
• Oil change and filter 700 miles prior. Level fine.
• Air filter cleaned 700 miles prior.
• Coolant level fine and not overheating. I don’t believe radiator fan was even on when I turned off engine (mine usually will only come on when bike left idling for 5 minutes or more).
• Premium 92 octane gas used (always), was halfway through the tank. No running issues prior or after on that same tank of gas.
• I did notice later that my idle was now low at 1400-1450 rpm. I set it at 1700-1750 rpm and it hadn’t changed in 6,000 miles. I attributed it to higher desert altitude of 6,000-7,000 ft versus sea level at home. However upon arriving back home last night it is still idling low.

So any help will be greatly appreciated and also posting this to let others know a possible solution if the same thing ever happens to them. For a short period of time I thought I was stranded 700 miles from home, not a good feeling. Luckily for me I was back running quickly as normal and enjoyed an additional two more fun days in the desert.

 

[capt42104]

Check the Timing chain tensioner. My 07 BMW GT did the same exact thing. I know it is a totally different beast, but i did the same thing and it started and ran great. However, the second time it did that the timing chain skipped a tooth on the crank and ruined the engine. Turned out the tensioner put tension on the chain with oil pressure when running and a spring to hold it while the motor was off. BMW recalled the tensioners after a few bike imploded this way. Turns out the spring gets weak after a short amount of time.

 

[SilverBullet]

Check the Timing chain tensioner. My 07 BMW GT did the same exact thing. I know it is a totally different beast, but i did the same thing and it started and ran great. However, the second time it did that the timing chain skipped a tooth on the crank and ruined the engine. Turned out the tensioner put tension on the chain with oil pressure when running and a spring to hold it while the motor was off. BMW recalled the tensioners after a few bike imploded this way. Turns out the spring gets weak after a short amount of time.

Hmm maybe something to think about. Our tensioner is spring tension only though. However if it malfunctioned and somehow locked into a fully extended overtight position maybe it could have put too much pressure on cam to allow engine to turn over?? And then reversing the bike caused spring and locking clicks in tensioner to be forced back in? I will definitely remove and inspect it.

Thanks for the idea.

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[capt42104]

I think just the opposite, it isn't tight enough and the chain binded up somewhere. When you went back wards, it unstuck.

 

[RDTCU]

I think just the opposite, it isn't tight enough and the chain binded up somewhere. When you went back wards, it unstuck.

Or possibly the compression release on the exhaust cam was seized up and not releasing compression on startup? Sounds more like cam chain wear/stretch or chain guide wear. Get that checked out...

 

[Fast1]

We had a problem very similar on a TE630 with the auto decompression on exhaust cam not working properly and required replacement at roughly 4500 miles under warranty.

Also I believe idle speed triggers the decompression on/off function.

Noticed idle speed was much lower at 9000 feet compared to sea level.

 

[SilverBullet]

Ok pulled the cam chain tensioner and a couple things don't seem right. First of all it would not lock in the open position. Looks like the roll pin is miscentered and slightly protruding out on one side keeping it from retracting far enough back in the tensioner housing to lock. This in itself shouldn't be an issue though.

Spring is intact and pushes out but doesn't seem near as strong of tension as other manufacturers tensioners I have experience with. Once pushed out and at a click stop I could not push it back in so that part seems normal. Anybody have their tensioner out already and can comment on the spring tension? When I let spring out and tensioner extends by itself into the chain I can also turn the dolly screw a little bit letting another one or two clicks or so of tension go to the chain.

Also when I reinstall the tensioner and let the spring tension out it has about another 3/4" of travel left after touching cam chain so still has adjustment left to go and do its job if enough tension there to do it properly.

So not conclusive but I definitely want to replace it to be safe. Not too expensive either but I don't want to have two weeks downtime to get the part and then find out it is the same as my current one. Service manual doesn't have any method for checking, measuring or gaging spring tension.

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[Xcuvator]

I would drain the oil and inspect the filter and magnet for signs of metal. Don't forget the clutch damper spring washers are know for failure. One of them is more than enough to lock the motor if it falls in one of many "right places". When you reversed the motor the washer or piece of washer fell out of where it was?
Just a thought

 

[SilverBullet]

Or possibly the compression release on the exhaust cam was seized up and not releasing compression on startup?

We had a problem very similar on a TE630 with the auto decompression on exhaust cam not working properly and required replacement at roughly 4500 miles under warranty.

Also I believe idle speed triggers the decompression on/off function.

Starting to think this might be the issue. Problem was made worse by an extremely low 1,400 rpm idle. I didn't really notice it until afterwards but idle was probably already low at that time. When starting it needed every molecule of that gas to get going and often would kinda catch and pop start. Previous idle was always 1,650-1,750 and bike would start instantly. Last two days of riding I would even crack the throttle open ever so slightly even when starting the bike hot and it did much better. Now back at sea level for one day and idle still was 1,400 rpm. Adjusted idle back to 1,700 rpm and no more starting issues.

After looking at cam chain tensioner again I think it's ok. The spring used in that unit is pretty wimpy so I wouldn't expect any more spring tension than what I have.

I would drain the oil and inspect the filter and magnet for signs of metal. Don't forget the clutch damper spring washers are know for failure. One of them is more than enough to lock the motor if it falls in one of many "right places". When you reversed the motor the washer or piece of washer fell out of where it was?
Just a thought

This was one of my first thoughts also. I tried to get this done before the trip but ran out of time. I already have the rivets from Husky and clutch holding tool made and beefier cup spring washers are on order. Just need to find a machine shop to install the rivets as I don't have proper tools to install those myself.

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[Travis Shrey]

I would drain the oil and inspect the filter and magnet for signs of metal. Don't forget the clutch damper spring washers are know for failure. One of them is more than enough to lock the motor if it falls in one of many "right places". When you reversed the motor the washer or piece of washer fell out of where it was?
Just a thought

This is still an issue? I thought it occurred on the 610's and they made changes to the 630?

 

[SilverBullet]

This is still an issue? I thought it occurred on the 610's and they made changes to the 630?

630 uses the exact same clutch parts as the 610. So definitely still a potential issue. Just not that many 630's with enough miles on them to show the problem yet.

Within the next month will be doing the cup spring upgrade on two 630's and will post the findings. One with ~2,000 miles the other with ~9,000 miles so will have some good wear info to share.

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[jtemple]

I have had my clutch cover off several times. With nearly 10,000 miles on the odometer, I have yet to see anything funny going on in there.

 

[SilverBullet]

I have had my clutch cover off several times. With nearly 10,000 miles on the odometer, I have yet to see anything funny going on in there.

You can't see anything unless you take your clutch apart. That is unless you see the failure signs of broken pieces of washers under the clutch cover, in the crankcase or in your oil. Then you've already waited too long.

I strongly suggest you consider replacing them proactively. It is not a question of if they will fail, only a question of when they will fail.

Here is a failure at 2,000 miles.
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/help-debris-found-in-my-engine-610-630-clutch-issues.16604/
Read the entire thread and you'll find more occurances and should be convinced. You can find more documented cases on advrider.com also

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[jtemple]

I haven't seen a single instance of this happening on a 630. Those are all 610 stories, and one older 450.

 

[SilverBullet]

I haven't seen a single instance of this happening on a 630. Those are all 610 stories, and one older 450.

Doesn't make any difference what model. As I said our 630 uses the exact same clutch as the 610 and the exact same cup springs with identical Husky p/n's. The fact that there are no 630 reports yet is only because of lower miles on the 630's. Your bike at just under 10,000 miles has the highest mileage of any 630 I know about. Mine follows yours closely at 8,800 miles and is going up daily. No winter hibernation here in Texas.

Last warning, it is not if the cup springs will fail, it is only a question of when they will fail. As the old oil commercial would say "pay me now or pay me later". In this case paying later stands to costs you much more if it causes collateral damage.

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[jtemple]

Doesn't make any difference what model. As I said our 630 uses the exact same clutch as the 610 and the exact same cup springs with identical Husky p/n's. The fact that there are no 630 reports yet is only because of lower miles on the 630's. Your bike at just under 10,000 miles has the highest mileage of any 630 I know about. Mine follows yours closely at 8,800 miles and is going up daily. No winter hibernation here in Texas.

Last warning, it is not if the cup springs will fail, it is only a question of when they will fail. As the old oil commercial would say "pay me now or pay me later". In this case paying later stands to costs you much more if it causes collateral damage.

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I sent an email to Hall's to get their two cents.

I have parts catalogs for the 2008 610 and the 630. I have verified that the part numbers for the 2008 610 and the 630 are identical.

I'll be interested to hear what you've found when you open yours up.

 

[CJBROWN]

>snip
Spring is intact and pushes out but doesn't seem near as strong of tension as other manufacturers tensioners I have experience with. Once pushed out and at a click stop I could not push it back in so that part seems normal. Anybody have their tensioner out already and can comment on the spring tension? When I let spring out and tensioner extends by itself into the chain I can also turn the dolly screw a little bit letting another one or two clicks or so of tension go to the chain.

>snip

I haven't messed with the husky tensioner but have ad infinitem on my KTM. I don't think they're too much different having come from the same designers. The spring is simply to maintain some tension on the chain when starting or at rest, then oil pressure keeps full tension on it once it's running.

I put a Dirt Tricks tensioner in the KTM and it made a HUGE difference. It also locks out, the oem one does not. If you're going to replace it I would contact DT and DJH to see what they have. In some circles a manual adjuster is favored. Don't know if there's one for the husky or not.

From what you describe I would bet my botton dollar it's the auto-decomp thingy malfunctioning. Without decomp the starter won't turn over the motor. running it backwards resets it. I would start there, the chain and tensioner is probably fine.

 

[SilverBullet]

From what you describe I would bet my botton dollar it's the auto-decomp thingy malfunctioning. Without decomp the starter won't turn over the motor. running it backwards resets it. I would start there, the chain and tensioner is probably fine.

My preliminary conclusion as well and now convinced the tensioner is functioning properly and still has ample adjustment left. Also if somehow cam chain had locked I can't believe it would have unlocked itself without jumping timing.

As someone mentioned above the auto decompression is evidently triggered by idle rpm. When my idle dropped to 1,400rpm that is when problem started. Problematic to start and when it would catch and start it did it hard and abruptly, like a small explosion at times. Even with bike at full operating temp from 2 hours of hot desert riding it would start in a similar manner unless I cracked the throttle open slightly while cranking. Then it would start much quicker and almost normally. Now after adjusting idle back up to ~1,700rpm issue has completely gone away and bike starts perfectly normal under all conditions like before i.e. cold, hot and without any throttle.

I sent an email to Hall's to get their two cents.
I'll be interested to hear what you've found when you open yours up.

I'm curious to hear Hall's (or Uptite, or Motoexotica, etc.) experience with this as well. I'm sure they've seen cases already.

I'll definitely post my findings in the "help! debris found in my engine" thread that I linked above.

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[Fast1]

From what you describe I would bet my botton dollar it's the auto-decomp thingy malfunctioning. Without decomp the starter won't turn over the motor. running it backwards resets it. I would start there, the chain and tensioner is probably fine.

Exactly what I experienced. The battery/starter will not turn the engine over when the auto decomp malfunctions. In fact we could hardly bump start the bike on a hard pack dirt road in second gear while towing with another bike. It was difficult to even get the bike to move while in gear and not running unless the back tire was skidding.

 

[jtemple]

Hall's reply:

I have heard of this issue via internet, but our shop has not had any personal experience.

To my knowledge, none of the items have been updated. (regarding clutch part updates that might not have included a new part number, since the 610/630 clutch part numbers are the same)