Synthetic E. Oil for X-lite

[farmer_luke]

I posted a thread asking how often people change the engine oil in their x-lite husky. I'm not accustomed to racing maintenance schedules, never having had the pleasure of participating in that activity. I've noticed there seems to be a consensus for using synthetic and I wonder why? If you're going to change the oil (what seems to me to be) frequently why not use a cheaper non-synthetic?

 

[henson802]

Why eat a fancy, healthier restaurant when you can eat at McDonalds? Both will make ya full...But you probably going to develop some unwanted side effects eating McDonalds regularily.

OK that wasn't the best analogy - It has to do with viscosity and durability towards heat. Synthetic oil won't break down as easily under heat - which is what the engine is going to be generating a lot of. And you need a certain consistency to keep engine clean and operating optimally.

 

[James Patton]

I run conventional oil in my KLR 650, the engine was designed and built in 1986, it will run forever on it.
My new car calls for full syn, and my TE by all accounts wants it to,,if it's a money issue, run what a lot
Of us do, Mobil 1 0/40 or 10/40 or whatever weight your bike calls for,,,it still pretty cheap....
Dump some of each in your hand, the full syn sure seems different..
Or run what you want and let's see, might be ok, but I would rather be safe than sorry...
My new 2 stroke, guess what all the guys in the know say 2 stoke full syn premix, so I am running
It, I don't really know if it's better, when I started riding in 1969, we just put some motor oil with the gas,

 

[DG Harv Serv]

Oh No , another Oil Thread !!!

Maybe search one of the other 10,20,30... already on here ?

 

[henson802]

It comes down to temperature I think. That KLR 650 may not be picky about oil cause it's not generating a lot of heat like the smaller engines need to.

A 250 or 310 maintains at least 3500 rpms during the average ride , peaking at 11,500 rpms sometimes during throttle whips and such - My buddy rides a Harley and his throttle stop is at like 3,500 rpms lol... well it is a 1500cc so -- those bigger engines probably will generate less heat (also hold way more oil).

That's why the riders on smaller bores (250s / 310s) are more voicerouus over the type of oil. You want something that remains fluid and won't break down clogging any moving parts or whatever else. The 250s/310s have small engines (xlite especially) so will be much hotter during rides because the parts are moving at a faster rate (RPMS). And since the engine holds less oil, it's important to keep a strong oil in there - which is synthetic. Prevents the oil viscosity from breaking down and keeps motor lubricated and running clean.

 

[Mike-AK]

Go to WalMart and get gallon jugs of Rotella T6 5W40 for under $25 and change it often.

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

I won't use anything but synthetic in my bike, I ran my radiators dry of coolant one day and unknowingly rode home 50 miles at 60mph, a few minor parts got damaged but the engine was not damaged, and it was the synthetic oil that saved it from melt down.

 

[mnb]

I won't use anything but synthetic in my bike, I ran my radiators dry of coolant one day and unknowingly rode home 50 miles at 60mph, a few minor parts got damaged but the engine was not damaged, and it was the synthetic oil that saved it from melt down.

Synthetic will last longer in this kind of situation. They don't break down as fast. Considering you put less than a quart in the bike... it's worth the cost. I don't change it all that often on mine because I don't ride it really hard, so I figure it doesn't need it. Besides, I'm too lazy to do after every ride anyways. That's just overkill.

 

[Tinken]

I posted a thread asking how often people change the engine oil in their x-lite husky. I'm not accustomed to racing maintenance schedules, never having had the pleasure of participating in that activity. I've noticed there seems to be a consensus for using synthetic and I wonder why? If you're going to change the oil (what seems to me to be) frequently why not use a cheaper non-synthetic?

Synthetic is made from mixing several very pure chemicals together, rather than distilling it from crude, this makes for a more pure product. Synthetic oil clings better to parts during down times. Synthetic is thinner when cold, than mineral oil which lengthens the life of engines from superior flow characteristics. Mineral oil contains viscosity II stabilizers, synthetic does not (they do not need them). Synthetic thins as it cools and mineral oil thickens as it heats, therefore when the additives wear out, synthetics leave you with a useable viscosity versus a dangerously thin mineral oil. Synthetic oil typically has higher quantities of detergents than mineral oils. Synthetic oil costs more than mineral oil.

More reading on oil types:
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/what-kind-of-oil-should-i-use.31911/

 

[farmer_luke]

Synthetic thins as it cools and mineral oil thickens as it heats, therefore when the additives wear out, synthetics leave you with a useable viscosity versus a dangerously thin mineral oil.
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/what-kind-of-oil-should-i-use.31911/

This statement is confusing. You're not saying that synthetic oil performs inversely to mineral oil regarding temperature are you? Both types of oil, before starting the engine, are too thick (at low temp) then thin as temps rise, correct?

 

[Mike-AK]

This statement is confusing. You're not saying that synthetic oil performs inversely to mineral oil regarding temperature are you? Both types of oil, before starting the engine, are too thick (at low temp) then thin as temps rise, correct?

More accurately, mineral oil has additives that cause it to thin less as it warms up. They don't get thicker. Synthetics don't need those additives. That's why they don't shear out of viscosity near as bad as a mineral oil.

 

[henson802]

And engines heat up pretty quickly. Use Synthetic - difference in price for a quart doesn't justify the negative effects other oils may have on the smaller XLITE engines especially.

 

[farmer_luke]

More accurately, mineral oil has additives that cause it to thin less as it warms up. They don't get thicker. Synthetics don't need those additives. That's why they don't shear out of viscosity near as bad as a mineral oil.

That gets back to my original question. If you are going to be changing the oil frequently (before the additives wear out) wouldn't mineral-based oil be ok? I guess one needs to know how quickly those additives break down. How do we know that?

 

[farmer_luke]

Dr. A. E. Haas

Note that Ferrari is not saying what thickness of oil to use. That can only be determined by experimentation. My engine oil temperature was running around 185 F as I drove around town on a hot Florida summer day. I have found that the thinnest oil I can buy that is API / SAE certified is Mobil 1’s thinnest oil. Even with this oil I get 80 PSI at 2,000 RPM. It is too thick for my application yet it is the thinnest oil money can buy. If I was on a hot Florida track in mid-summer the oil temperature would probably get up to 302 F. I will guess that the pressure would only be 40 PSI at 6,000 RPM. The oil I am using would not meet the requirement of 75 PSI at 6,000 RPM from Ferrari. I would have to choose a thicker oil for this racing situation. The oil I use now would be too thin at that very high temperature. (This is only partly true. Higher RPM running engines use thinner and thinner oils to get more and more flow. I will discuss this later).

So, what's the engine oil temp in an x-lite under different riding, trail/racing/road?

 

[Tinken]

I'll use 10w30 for example. Mineral oil base stock would be 10 weight with a plasticizer additive that allows it to remain thick at elevated temperatures. The synthetic equivilant would be 30 weight oil with thinning additives to make it closer to the viscosity of 10 weight when cool.

 

[farmer_luke]

me

That gets back to my original question. If you are going to be changing the oil frequently (before the additives wear out) wouldn't mineral-based oil be ok? I guess one needs to know how quickly those additives break down. How do we know that

and Dr. Haas says,

Dr. A. E. Haas

This is just theory however. With normal oil change intervals the VI improver will not wear out and so the problem does not really exist.

 

[Tinken]

The main reason why engines tend to last longer when using synthetic is because it is thinner at start up. Otherwise, with as often as we change our oils in our bikes, it would make little difference.

Finding mineral oils as thin as synthetic at start up is tough to find. For example; Kelly has always used Delco 10w30 in his 511, but even it is not as thin at startup as M1 0w40.

 

[henson802]

Perhaps the question is why are you so devoted on using non-synthetic? Price difference isn't substancial. A quart of synthetic is roughly 5-7 bux.. and that's all a 250 engine takes.

Those smaller bore engine parts are moving a lot and you want the best quality with best lubrication under all conditions - and the riders here seem to agree Synthetic is best!

 

[farmer_luke]

I'll use 10w30 for example. Mineral oil base stock would be 10 weight with a plasticizer additive that allows it to remain thick at elevated temperatures. The synthetic equivilant would be 30 weight oil with thinning additives to make it closer to the viscosity of 10 weight when cool.

Is it really thinning additives or is it just the nature of synthetic oil? I thought that was why synthetic could be run longer, it doesn't have the additives that break down.

 

[farmer_luke]

Perhaps the question is why are you so devoted on using non-synthetic? Price difference isn't substancial. A quart of synthetic is roughly 5-7 bux.. and that's all a 250 engine takes.

Those smaller bore engine parts are moving a lot and you want the best quality with best lubrication under all conditions - and the riders here seem to agree Synthetic is best!

I'm not devoted to one or the other. I'm just trying to understand the justification for using synthetic and ramifications of not doing so. I do like to debate/play devil's advocate to understand things better. Please don't take offense, I like to analyze.