So What Do We Know About the TR650 EFI?

[MotocycleWriter]

I've done a lot of reading and tinkering since I brought my 650 home. It's a great bike and I really like it, but I'm trying to get my arms around this body of knowledge. Of the problems with this bike the only one I'm still grappling with is the EFI.

There are a lot of posts on the internets with pieces of this puzzle but they are pretty widely spaced in time. We've had a few years to learn what works and what doesn't, which posts were bogus and which have stood the test of time. So what is it we know about the EFI at this point?

The bike tends to run lean and stumble from the factory, or so I've been told. I've never experienced this since my bike had a spoofer on it when I got it. But I've come across some posts that suggest the spoofer will stop working as the EFI adjusts to the information coming from the oxygen sensor. Is this correct?

I've come across some posts saying that you need to do and ECU reset? What's the status of this?

Is is possible to change the map using the MOSS tool?

Has the MOSS tool been discontinued and are any of the newer tools able to talk to this chip?

I don't really mind learning about the bike or fabricating stuff to make it better. In a weird sort of way I like owning this mysterious yet highly capable machine. However, we all only have the time in a day and I can only devote so much of it to searching for TR650 observations and fixes. So, is there an online clearing house of this particular kind of information? There's some very nice write ups of the air box mods but I've not yet come across a comprehensive write up of EFI knowledge and mods.

 

[drzcharlie]

ECU reset is ineffective on the TR

MOSS is hard to find. AFAIK there is no mapping change available using MOSS

MOSS is almost non-existent but not impossible to find if you are willing to ride or trail the bike to a dealer that still has it.

Check for Roger04RT's posts on EFI and how it works they are indeed quite comprehensive.

Finally, if your bike runs without stumbling, just ride it and don't worry about it.

 

[rride]

The low rpm stumble is not the efi. The enhanced efi is one of the major improvements of the Husky Rotax engine version.

The stumbling at low rpm's is physics. The efi puff's a mist of gas and the piston has to go 360 degrees around before another puff of fuel. Just DON'T ride at that low of rpm's! It can beat the baddest 650cc KTM there ever was, so who cares? No bike is going to have low end to top end continuous acceleration. Your bike has a monster mid range power cycle and that is the very best imo. Enjoy it. How it was done without a monster midrange cam, I'll never know: although there is some contribution lurking there I'm sure.

Your bike is the best of a long line of 650cc Rotax direct descendant engines since the early 1990's winning all kinds of racing titles in every facet of motorcycle/atv racing. Just be honored that the CEO of KTM was so nervous that he bought Husky just to discontinue this specific model (and it's big 900cc brother)!

 

[LED]

The stumbling at low rpm's is physics. The efi puff's a mist of gas and the piston has to go 360 degrees around before another puff of fuel. Just DON'T ride at that low of rpm's! ...(and it's big 900cc brother)!

Not just physics but also stats. Without having a history of motorcycle ownership to back me up, you have succinctly summarized my thoughts on the 'stumble issue'. I would not think large displacement, low rpm is conducive to idle or low rpm stability. I'm happy to be shown wrong.

 

[MotocycleWriter]

Excellent! I do love the power band of this motor. No complaints there at all. Just looking to consolidate some of the information that's been spread out across space and time. Some of it is doubtless OBE by now but just perusing threads it is often difficult to tell what has bubbled to the top as best practices. For instance, one of my questions is whether or not the ECU eventually starts to compensate for the temperature spoofer. I've read that it does but there was some disagreement. The post was over a year old and there was no consensus in the thread. Do we know now? If it does then is a periodic ECU reset in order? I'd like to know for my body of knowledge as I move forward with this machine that I find I'm riding more than either of my plated BMWs. Perhaps we need an EFI FAQ similar to the AirBox mod FAQ or Parts Interchange FAQ.

BTW:

The stumbling at low rpm's is physics. The efi puff's a mist of gas and the piston has to go 360 degrees around before another puff of fuel.

The piston has no angular displacement. The crank would make two revolutions (720 degrees) and the piston would reciprocate two linear cycles before the next fuel delivery... unless this is a 650cc two-stroke.

 

[mag00]

Surprised you forgot, Dr Z http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1002255

All you wanted to know and more, just sort through it.

 

[MotocycleWriter]

Surprised you forgot Dr Z http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1002255

All you wanted to know and more, just sort through it.

Haha! Just found this, like, thirty seconds before I came back to CH to post that my question was already answered! Found it by searching on "LC-2 TR650" which I formulated by reading through the New Owners Stupid Questions Thread.

If KTM would start building this bike (again) it would displace the DR650 - or force Suzuki to modernize.

 

[glitch_oz]

If KTM would start building this bike (again) it would displace the DR650 - or force Suzuki to modernize.

Let's hope they never do... and stick to fixing all the f/ups on their own bikes first (see 1190s etc) before adding even more to the Huskies
The continued sales- success (at least in AUS) of the DR's+KLR's shows that the market knows what it wants and needs for the local conditions.
As much as the DR/KLR get rubbished, I somehow can't see a half-million TR's standing around out there going no-where with ceased
engines and crying out for PodMods while the rear swingarm is rusting away

 

[FabOneUp]

Of the many modifications done to my (now our…wait..ok so it's hers!) TR650, modifying the EFI is not one of them. We recently did a series of mods to get the bike low enough for my wife to ride and she has now inherited it full time. We went on a great ride last week on a 220 mile round trip to Leadville to get some dinner. Somewhere on the ride she radio'd in and said "I noticed this thing doesn't like to lug very much and you have to keep the revs up a little more". "Yup" I said, and that was that. She adapted instantly and is all smiles with her new bike.

Put on your trinkets, add your personal flavor of vinyl coating, and ride the thing….it's fricken awesome!

 

[drzcharlie]

I just did a almost 900 miles of tarmac on a ride to my brother in lawas and back. The TR performed flawlessly. After modifying my seat a year ago my butt didn't even get sore. I spent most of my 8 hours going home at 55-80 MPH on back roads. I averaged 57 miles a gallon going (wind at my back) and 52 miles per gallon coming back (wind in my face). I love this bike and have chosen to ride it. Just quit fretting over the bike, keep it maintained and ride it.

 

[DanD]

I just did a almost 900 miles of tarmac on a ride to my brother in lawas and back. The TR performed flawlessly. After modifying my seat a year ago my butt didn't even get sore. I spent most of my 8 hours going home at 55-80 MPH on back roads. I averaged 57 miles a gallon going (wind at my back) and 52 miles per gallon coming back (wind in my face). I love this bike and have chosen to ride it. Just quit fretting over the bike, keep it maintained and ride it.

+1

I feel the same way. The Strada just turned 10k and just like Fabs wife I learned to ride around the stall and most times I catch it now with a little throttle blip before leaving a long light.

With time and exposure I've basically learned and adapted to the Strada. The EFI problems are nothing more than a micro-annoyance to me now.

 

[dmw_az]

I learned to ride around the stall and most times I catch it now with a little throttle blip before leaving a long light.

I did that for the first couple months of ownership. Once I got the EJK, I had to re-learn to ride the bike again like you would ride a "normal" bike. No more low-rpm stumbles, better throttle response, and lots more torque. The EJK has been on for about 6 months now and it has really changed my bike for the better.

 

[MotocycleWriter]

I did that for the first couple months of ownership. Once I got the EJK, I had to re-learn to ride the bike again like you would ride a "normal" bike. No more low-rpm stumbles, better throttle response, and lots more torque. The EJK has been on for about 6 months now and it has really changed my bike for the better.

Why did you choose the EJK? There are a lot of fueling solutions out there. Some are probably better than others and some might appeal to one person or another based on their knowledge, tinkering ability, or desire for more real time data. What was it about the EJK that convinced you to drop ~$200 on it as opposed to an AF-XiED, LC-1/2, or one of the other controllers?

 

[engineerk9]

Why did you choose the EJK? There are a lot of fueling solutions out there. Some are probably better than others and some might appeal to one person or another based on their knowledge, tinkering ability, or desire for more real time data. What was it about the EJK that convinced you to drop ~$200 on it as opposed to an AF-XiED, LC-1/2, or one of the other controllers?

Interesting question

 

[Mark_H]

I just did a almost 900 miles of tarmac on a ride to my brother in lawas and back. The TR performed flawlessly. After modifying my seat a year ago my butt didn't even get sore. I spent most of my 8 hours going home at 55-80 MPH on back roads. I averaged 57 miles a gallon going (wind at my back) and 52 miles per gallon coming back (wind in my face). I love this bike and have chosen to ride it. Just quit fretting over the bike, keep it maintained and ride it.

Agreed Charlie, but you have to admit that in order to 'enjoy the ride' as you do, you have already spent a great deal of time and lots of $$$ over and above the average new bike !
The OP has asked some very reasonable questions to what is considered a very difficult machine to learn about with 1000s of different posts in various forums, all discussing one problem or another and various workarounds.
The bike may be great to ride, but if the truth be known, it is a generally considered to be a LEMON and the facts speak for themselves, no doubt about it.

 

[drzcharlie]

Mark,

I somewhat disagree. I think that the word "lemon" is a bit strong. The Rotax is bullet proof, the EFI and ECU are the quizzical parts of this machine. I have less than $450 invested in testing and ultimately settling on the LC2. The AF_XIED device worked equally well but I could not chart the results, hence, the LC2. I would not have learned anything about FI had I not purchased this bike and met Roger04RT. He is a smart guy with the patience of a saint.

Lemons come in the form of many different manufacturers and bikes and this bike certainly fits in there somewhere. It's really a pity that nobody has cracked the ECU hex code in a manner that would facilitate changing fueling. It is what it is. I just chose to optimize and use the bike. Fretting over it just didn't trip my trigger. Riding it does.

As for the hours spent doing mods and research, yeah there is that. But I'm retired and like doing this sort of thing.

 

[mag00]

Why did you choose the EJK? There are a lot of fueling solutions out there. Some are probably better than others and some might appeal to one person or another based on their knowledge, tinkering ability, or desire for more real time data. What was it about the EJK that convinced you to drop ~$200 on it as opposed to an AF-XiED, LC-1/2, or one of the other controllers?

First off, there are no solutions as of yet, merely bandaids.


The EJK is Proven Technology, Great customer support, Dobeck is a top notch organization. Unlike the other spoofers, except the PC5, all you are doing is adding more fuel. The dobeck can be tuned in zones, to not add fuel where it is not needed.

You do not use the o2 with the ejk, so no chance of souring the ecu. It will not adapt out. If you remember settings from cold weather or higher altitudes it is an easy adjustment for different conditions.

Setting it up can be a little tricky.


My opinion is that the EJK is the way to go given you have the patience to tune it proper. I'm adding one later on, after exhaust mods, purely for power, not for any drivability issues.

 

[Geeza]

Thanks to the people who invest time in understanding the problems and finding solutions like Charlie and Roger I was able to make an educated decision on the LC2 for my bike. This did not require a lot of effort or time to complete the mod and I am very happy with the results and the ability to log the AFR. The bike continues to run without fault and I believe that this mod and its net result on performance and reliability is excellent for the small cost in both time and money.

 

[sussurf]

My bike is bone stock. When brand new it did misbehave a little but now that it has around 13,000klm on it the engine has run in nicely and I rarely get any stumbling unless cold. I can take off from lights normally with no coaxing the revs up.
I wont be spoofing, AFXifying or any such thing. I like it just as it is.

 

[DandyDisco]

I guess I'm in the same boat as sussurfer.
24 months and 27k km. No mods just start and ride. Don't ever wait for it to warm up, turn the key and ride.
Never an issue with it in 0c or +40c No flat spots No stalls
I guess I'm using mine as a fun toy more then an investment.

Just lots of trips, adventure and fun. One day I will wash it. Maybe.