125-200cc Should I Change Bikes

[mikebru]

Did the Hammer Run dual sport yesterday.

I'm a slow, ok rider, but not very skilled.

I have a 2012 TE 449. I had a hard time in the tight stuff. Felt like i was working too hard and trying to muscle the bike around. I think I'm rired of this bike now. This isn't the 1st time this has happened.

I spoke with 2 guys (one was Kyle from this forum) who both said their WR's work great.

So, for a rider like me would it make sense to move to a 125 or 250 2 stroke?

Keep in mind I've been riding dirt for about 5 years and have never ridden a 2 stroke.

I'm a slow 41 year old that likes riding, though I don't get out as often as I'd like. I mostly ride in Ocean County and south jersey.

I appreciate any advice. Thanks. Mike

Any advice?

 

[woodsrider]

I'm new to Huskies, but have been riding in the dirt for some time now. 53 yrs old, decent rider, but out of shape and slow. Ride single track, no real dual sporting at the moment.

Over the years my bikes have gotten smaller and lighter and I'm loving it. Went from a KLX650R (not a KLR, KLX is more like a Honda XR650R), to a KTM 520 EXC, to a KTM 250 EXC 2 stroke, then a YZ250 2 stroke, then a KTM 125 SX, now on a WR125.

If you're not going to be doing a lot of road riding, I'd look into a 250 or 300 2 stroke. They will have plenty of power for the south Jersey sand, but still be very light compared to your 449. The 125 might be too big of a change right off the bat.

If for some reason you don't love a 2 stroke, you could always sell it and go back to a big 4 stroke.

And of course, if you can get a chance to borrow a buddies bike and get a few miles on what you're thinking of buying, well that is the way to go. Good luck. -Ed

 

[mikebru]

Thanks Ed.

I failed to write before that I weigh 200 lbs.

 

[Eaglefreek]

I don't know how much truth there is to it, but I've heard the gyroscopic effect of a 4 stroke firing on every other stroke makes the bike feel "heavier". I also owned a KLX650R like woodsrider, it was nice having that torque when you needed it but wore you out riding.

 

[2premo]

I don't know how much truth there is to it, but I've heard the gyroscopic effect of a 4 stroke firing on every other stroke makes the bike feel "heavier". I also owned a KLX650R like woodsrider, it was nice having that torque when you needed it but wore you out riding.

you are correct on the gyroscopic effect, but the big difference is the mass of moving parts all play into it, a 250 2 stroke has good bottom torque, and a 450 has good top power, so you rev a 250 out and yes there is power there but it's strongest suit was it's bottom end torque, you take the 450 and lug it and it works but not great, it's strongest suit is the higher rpm's, to make power takes revs on the 4 stroke and there is your gyroscopic problem, I ride a 360 that will climb a hill just above idle but falls on it's face at high rpm, but in the single track is where it shines low rpm like a tractor, no gyro effect and runs cooler than most of my friends 4 strokes lugging through the trees, I see them boil over or run fans to keep them cool

hope this helps

back to your question a modern 250 or 300 makes amazing good low rpm power and they flick around easier than a bigger 4 stroke
look at a 250 or possibly a 300

 

[2premo]

you are correct on the gyroscopic effect, but the big difference is the mass of moving parts all play into it, a 250 2 stroke has good bottom torque, and a 450 has good top power, so you rev a 250 out and yes there is power there but it's strongest suit was it's bottom end torque, you take the 450 and lug it and it works but not great, it's strongest suit is the higher rpm's, to make power takes revs on the 4 stroke and there is your gyroscopic problem, I ride a 360 that will climb a hill just above idle but falls on it's face at high rpm, but in the single track is where it shines low rpm like a tractor, no gyro effect and runs cooler than most of my friends 4 strokes lugging through the trees, I see them boil over or run fans to keep them cool

hope this helps

back to your question a modern 250 or 300 makes amazing good low rpm power and they flick around easier than a bigger 4 stroke
look at a 250 or possibly a 300

forgot to finish my original thought the mass of moving parts, a two stroke has a piston, a four stroke has about 25 times as many, bigger crank, timing chain and cam all rotating and higher in the center of gravity issue so you are fighting more than you think

 

[woodsrider]

Thanks Ed.

I failed to write before that I weigh 200 lbs.

210 lbs for me.

Regarding the heavier feel of the 4 strokes, that has definitely been my experience. Same effect is present on the 2 strokes to some extent. A 250 smoker feels much lighter compared to 300 2 stroke to me, even though they are basically the same weight. Not everyone notices the difference though.

And don't forget the flywheel effect of the 4 stroke. Let off the gas on a 4 stroke and its like hitting the brakes. Let off the gas on a 2 stroke and its like freewheeling, much less engine braking effect. Not really a good or bad thing to me, just different.

Every time I get on a 4 stroke I almost launch myself over the bars every time I let off the gas, even when I remember its coming. LOL.

 

[mikebru]

Great comments guys, thanks.

I see a few 125/144's for sale along with one 300.

What are some if the disadvantages to going with a 125 vs 250 or 300?

 

[2premo]

210 lbs for me.

Regarding the heavier feel of the 4 strokes, that has definitely been my experience. Same effect is present on the 2 strokes to some extent. A 250 smoker feels much lighter compared to 300 2 stroke to me, even though they are basically the same weight. Not everyone notices the difference though.

And don't forget the flywheel effect of the 4 stroke. Let off the gas on a 4 stroke and its like hitting the brakes. Let off the gas on a 2 stroke and its like freewheeling, much less engine braking effect. Not really a good or bad thing to me, just different.

Every time I get on a 4 stroke I almost launch myself over the bars every time I let off the gas, even when I remember its coming. LOL.

you are right they feel heavier because it's a bigger piston, and when it's moving it adds up fast

you are right about the modern 125's they are great and I enjoy the lighter feel, but that much jump at once might be too much, 450 4t to 250 2t would be easier to adapt to at first, then wake him up to the fun we have with the lighter toys

 

[2premo]

Great comments guys, thanks.

I see a few 125/144's for sale along with one 300.

What are some if the disadvantages to going with a 125 vs 250 or 300?

in a nutshell the 300 will pull harder but will hit harder too, if you are not ready it's a handful
the 250 is pretty balanced in performance (although some shifting is required) to what you are currently on and easy to ride
the 125 feels like you can flick it at will, takes no energy but needs quite a bit more shifting

 

[woodsrider]

Great comments guys, thanks.

I see a few 125/144's for sale along with one 300.

What are some if the disadvantages to going with a 125 vs 250 or 300?

The only disadvantage to me to the 125/144 is the lack of low end torque. Not sure how this would play out in the south Jersey sand, but out here in the mountains it can be a pain when you have a "no approach" hill climb, or a series of nasty uphill switchbacks. With the torquier bikes its much easier. You can still do it on the 125's, but its just more work.

Can you afford to buy a 2 stroke and still keep the 449? If that's the case, I would not rule out a 125, they are a ton of fun. And having the big bore 4 stroke and the small bore 2 st would be an awesome combo.

And not sure what brands you're looking at, but I would not rule out a KTM 125/150, 200, 250, or 300, they are all great bikes.

Hard to go wrong nowadays, the bikes are just so good.

 

[woodsrider]

One more thing to keep in mind is the 2 strokes can feel a bit "skittish" (for lack of a better term) at first compared to a 4 stroke that may feel more "planted", especially the front end. I'm no suspension expert, but I suspect its due to the different power characteristics of the engine types, and the generally lighter weight of the 2 st's vs the 4 st's.

I quickly got used to this though and its a complete non-issue now as I love the light weight and flickability of the 2 st's. Just thought I would mention it as it was very noticeable to me when I made the switch from a big bore 4 st to 250 2 st.

 

[LandofMotards]

Why jump on anything. I've seen plenty of people here with all the 2 strokes and even 310's. Organize a group ride, I'm sure they'd love swapping with your 449 for a different experience too. No sense in buying another bike that you don't care for.

 

[mikebru]

Once again great advice guys on all aspects of my potential change.

I'm definitely looking at WR's since I want that plate.

Light weight and flickability is what I'm after. I think the sand is more about staying on the gas more than the torque to dig out of it or through it. The torque and planted-ness is nice on the 449 though on those no approach hills. The 449 climbs easily.

How much of a lighter feel and ease on the body is the 250 vs the 449? 125/144 vs the 449?

I owe you guys a beer after all this information and knowledge.

 

[Norman Foley]

Big 4 strokes are tough in South Jersey tight. I've only ridden a 449 once and not in the tight woods. The way the CTS bike works on and off throttle, it might be even harder to ride in tight woods than a conventional 4 stroke. A 2 stroke will work much better in my opinion.

My Avatar is me on my '09 WR165, at the SJER Curly Fern Enduro. I rode 250 2 strokes for years, an odd big bore and a stint on a '01 TE400 4 stroke. I then went to a '02 WR125 and later an '09 WR125/144/165. I'm presently riding a '12 Husaberg TE250 2 stroke. I need the button, after 2 right knee surgeries. Luckily in NY, by buying it from a PA Dealer, I get "The Plate".

I think the '09 + WR125 handles much nicer, than a WR250/300. Buy a 125 and you have 2 options to boost power, if you want more... 144 and 165!

 

[mikebru]

Thanks Norman. The curly fern is the exact type of riding we do around here other than Durty Dabbers in Pa.

Still have your 165? Did you buy yours at Toy Tech?

 

[Chef]

Ride any bike in the element it was built for and you will have a ton of fun. I have an 02. Husky 250 2t , a 09 wr144 and a 650 berg. The 144 is by far the lightest and most flickable. I can be lazy riding the 250 with the low down grunt. Riding the berg through the single track is kind of a cardio weight training workout ... Good fun but it wears me out riding it hard . I'm far faster on the 144 and fresher at the end of a ride but you have to keep it wound up. I've dual sported my 250 but don't really like it for that. The berg excels at d/s. My advice would be keep the te for real dual sport and get an older 125 and really set it up for the woods. Then again much depends on who you ride with. No sense in riding a 125 when your buddies are on klr's.

 

[Norman Foley]

Thanks Norman. The curly fern is the exact type of riding we do around here other than Durty Dabbers in Pa.

Still have your 165? Did you buy yours at Toy Tech?

A little 2 stroke won't feel as planted in PA rocks, as your 449, but you can push it around with body English and it makes up for it. It will be a bit different, but you learn to pick your lines.

I still have my '09 WR165, but it may need a new home in the future. I bought it from my long time Husky Dealer, Bottone's in Bradford PA. Sadly Fran Bottone closed shop a couple of years ago and sold his Husky Franchise to a larger dealer. He works there, but it's not the same, as his little "Dirt Bike Shop"

 

[James Patton]

I ride a TE511 2012 model, and have an 2006 WR125. They are so different, the 125 is great in the tight woods
I ride, and I keep saying I am going to do the 144/165 but it runs so good and has been so reliable. I am in love with
my 511 but if I am going to ride a hare scrambles or ride woods with my buddies I want the WR. The 511 is for
riding to the trail or track to play, it is the best street legal dirt bike I have owned. If I only rode dirt, the 511
would be gone, if I need to do both trail and street the 511 wins.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

Mike, for what it's worth, I think that the tight stuff is going to wear you out on any bike, until you get comfortable with it.

For example, I rode my 610 on Sunday at Hammer (rode my WR300 on Saturday, when we bumped into each other), and it was great. Sunday was probably a little bit more open than Saturday, but there was still some tight woods mixed in there, and the bike was never an "issue." On the other hand, on some of the faster more open stuff they mixed in on Sunday (the "turn and burn" straights in the morning, the firecuts in the afternoon) the 610 was absolutely amazing. Point being, the 610 is a big bike, but it worked for me in that terrain.

On Saturday, there were some TIGHT enduro sections after the snack stop, and I was very glad to be riding my WR in there, it would have been a bear on the 610. Same thing with an enduro and some hare scrambles, they would be a nightmare on the 610 because of the relentless tight stuff.

One other comment I would make is that I think 2-strokes can sometimes be surprisingly fatiguing to ride; even though they are small and light (which is great), the power delivery is very snappy and they turn so quick that you need to be on your game. On a big 4-stroke sometimes you can be a bit smoother and work a little bit less hard. My 610 is WAY easier to ride in whoops than my WR, for example. I really love the raw/visceral nature of a 2-stroke, but some other guys don't.

The other downside to 2-strokes is that they don't make very good all-purpose bikes. If you want to ride around in town, or do long road sections, they aren't great. On the other hand, they are light, simple, and cheap, and have very minimal maintenance requirements.

I've got a proposal for you: you've never ridden a 2-stroke, and I've never ridden a CTS bike, so why don't we meet up some Saturday/Sunday morning and swap bikes for an hour or two? That ought to help you figure out if the 2-stroke thing works for you, and I get to try one of the Huskies I keep hearing all these good things about. I know a great spot with a mix of open flowing singletrack and tight stuff.