Seized Engine: 2014 Te310r W/ 15 Hours

[MitchMan406]

**Revised**

Question:

(I discovered this while trying to find TDC.)

When looking at the flywheel with cover/stator removed from the left side of the bike, I can rotate the flywheel both clockwise and counter clockwise by hand. On this engine, the flywheel should rotate counter clockwise while operating, during normal conditions. So the fact the flywheel spins counterclockwise is perfectly fine.

However, why does the flywheel rotate backwards (clockwise) AND turn the worm gear on the starter. This is the real issue. With the freewheel bearing installed, the engine should not spin backward--otherwise, why would it be in there. Spacing, perhaps?

I can can rotate the engine easily with with my hand (no tools) turning the flywheel -- as well as when I rotate the rear tire backwards while the bike is in second gear. The engine easily reverses and drives the worm gear backwards on the starter. There’s no binding whatsoever. The worm gear spins very quickly when I rotate the engine backwards, too. That was quite a surprise.

I though this engine was prevented from rotating in reverse because the starter worm/ring relationship.

Has the ‘14’s updated parts in the starter/worm/ring configuration solved the destroyed case issue experienced by some? Because this bike will plainly spin backwards with zero binding.

To refresh everyone here, I have a 2014. Which there are no parts for. All parts for this bike are coming from 20xx - 2013 MYs.

I do not know how to post a video here.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Why will the engine rotate backwards?

And:

Why does the worm gear drive the starter shaft and make it rotate?

engine backwards: misfire, ignition advanced (eg, flywheel key sheared), rolling backwards (downhill?) then dumping the clutch. [also: the bike is on a stand and someone turns the rear wheel backwards bike in gear, which engages the sprag and tries to turn the worm. thunk. lotsa ADCs don't like this too much either- some bikes specify only turning the engine forward to locate TDC.]

It's conceivable that with a bad sprag or maybe even turning the engine backward slow enough, the sprag will not engage and so the ring will not try to turn the worm. but I would guess the if the sprag engaged, it would come to a solid stop. you're not seeing this??? you shouldn't be able to drive the worm in either rotational direction using the ring gear; but by only turning it's shaft.

read this:
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/sh...-electric-starting-a-few-long-thoughts.87927/

worm turning starter: it doesn't. the starter drives the worm by making it's shaft rotate through the bevel gears... unless something very weird is going on- got a vid?

2014 has a few updated parts over the 2013 (ring and worm gear being one; possibly fork internals) but otherwise are the same bike. hell, the 14s had a sticker on it that said "100 year anniversary model 1903-2013" or something like that. they were made in the summer of 2013.

 

[MitchMan406]

Trench:

I updated my comments above for clarity, FYI.

Thanks for the responses.

My fear here is when I get this thing reassembled, I'm going to hit the starter button and the sprag/freewheel bearing will engage and lock.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

I do not know how to post a video here.

Post a vid to YouTube maybe.

I can can rotate the engine easily with with my hand (no tools) turning the flywheel -- as well as when I rotate the rear tire backwards while the bike is in second gear. The engine easily reverses and drives the worm gear backwards on the starter. There’s no binding whatsoever. The worm gear spins very quickly when I rotate the engine backwards, too. That was quite a surprise.

I can't understand how turning the rear wheel can cause the worm gear to turn at all- in any direction. All I can envision is the worm shaft itself being driven forward or backward (depending on the ring gear spin direction) without rotation. I really need to see a video.

However, why does the flywheel rotate backwards (clockwise) AND turn the worm gear on the starter. This is the real issue. With the freewheel bearing installed, the engine should not spin backward--otherwise, why would it be in there. Spacing, perhaps?

The sprag should engage when you turn the engine (rear wheel) backwards. That is normal behavior.

Has the ‘14’s updated parts in the starter/worm/ring configuration solved the destroyed case issue experienced by some? Because this bike will plainly spin backwards with zero binding.

the worm and ring gear are the same parts as earlier xlites, apparently they have just been hardened to reduce galling. The '14s will shoot the worm drive out of the case just as fast as any electric start xlite if the conditions are right.

My fear here is when I get this thing reassembled, I'm going to hit the starter button and the sprag/freewheel bearing will engage and lock.

You want the sprag to engage & lock when you hit the starter button; that is how the starter turns the engine. Once the engine is spinning faster than the sprag (CCW), the sprag releases- regardless if the electric motor is spinning or not.


I'm admittedly still confused why you took the flywheel off and replaced the sprag, when your issue was a bent valve. The clutch also, I guess.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

here is a fast explanation of the sprag operation for you:

the sprag engages when it is spinning counter-clockwise faster than the engine.

when the engine is spinning clockwise (backwards) the sprag may engage because it is "spinning" counter-clockwise faster (but really, it's not moving) relative to the engine.

I don't know if that clears things up or muddies the water even more. I am unclear if centrifugal force is a factor with the sprag's pawls engaging; I know friction is.

 

[MitchMan406]

Got the bike started last night.

Took about 4-5 five-second starting attempts with the electric start, but she fired right up once the fuel system primed.

I quickly shut it off to make some adjustments and mods to the wiring/radiator hoses near the exhaust pipe.

Ordered exhaust wrap last not on Amazon for overnight delivery.

 

[gsxrbee]

Hi guys, what a great post!

Oem valve manufacturer is Del West in switzerland.

http://delwestengineering.com/parts-titanium-valves/

Initially, they should be titanium made... ¿?

 

[peppers]

**********EDIT TO ORIGINAL POST********

Based on findings when I removed the right and left side covers of the engine and head, I have discovered that the failure of the engine was completely my fault due to my negligence when working in the airbox of the bike. I allowed a small screw to fall into the airbox--which deflected into the intake--amazingly. The rest of the post details the diagnostics detailing the trouble shooting the piston seizure--and subsequent damage the screw caused as it worked its way into the combustion chamber. Rebuild overview follows as well.

Also, it should be noted, that I should have put a boroscope down the spark plug hole to look inside the combustion chamber as directed by Trench. That was sage advice as it turns out. Boroscope attachments for you smartphone will cost approximately USD$35.00.

Again, when dealing with a seizure, look into the combustion chamber first.

Also, all tools, debris, and screws/bolts dropped into the airbox or intake MUST be accounted for. They do not magically fall out of the airbox through the small cracks in the bottom. Lessons learned...Original post follows:



I have a 2014 TE310R with a seized engine.

(Yes. A 2104. Identical to the 2013 as far as I can tell.)

I am the second owner. Bike has about 10-15 hours. The bike is like new.

The power up mods were done. It started right up every-time. I rode the bike around the neighborhood since I bought it back in October.

Just putted around the neighborhood basically.

Then Sunday took it to the trails for some pretty flat, easy trail riding and it seized at the bottom of a dry stream bed. I was lugging it over rocks and it stopped.

Tried to hit the button several times—and each time I heard a “tink”, “tink” when the starter engaged.

So I tried to kick it. Kick lever was solid like it was welded on.

Absolutely seized.

Not missing any engine coolant.

Oil level and condition seems fine. (Not milky at all.)

Transmission will shift into 1, 2, and neutral. Didn’t try any other gears.

Bike will roll around in neutral fine.

Recommendations, please.

Thank you in advance.

-MitchView attachment 93465

Hi Mitch did i see this is an old post, i bought a 2014 TE310R about a year and a half ago and have several problems. Did you ever get your bike running again? I was hoping to see if you could send me some close up pics of a few areas so i could compare to mine. lmk...