Poor handling 09 txc 450

[andyman]

I thought my bike rode really well until riding with some friends at Loretta Lynn's this weekend. There was NO shortage of KTM's there, and i took the opportunity to ride a few. I also loaned mine out to a couple of friends to give me some feedback. I was SHOCKED at how poor my bike handles compared to thier bikes. I heard "no wonder you're having so much trouble out there" more than once after having my bike returned.

What information can I provide to those of you that know how to improve the handling?

All I know to tell you is that even riding around the campground, compared to the others I rode, that mine feels really really sloppy, front end pushy, and generally loose.

 

[JasonfromMN]

Have you tried to slow down the dampening through the clickers? When they say "hard" and "soft", that really means "slow" reaction and "fast" reaction. Feeling sloppy sounds like they are set up too "fast"(soft).

Another thing worth mentioning, a suspension breaks in kinda like an engine. And once it wears in, the oil gets pretty junkie. I always change out my fork and shock oil after a while, and to me the difference has always been noticeable.

 

[andyman]

Thanks for the reply. I'm 6'2", 230lbs (give or take), and SLOW.

Here are my settings if that helps:

compression at 14 out (top adjuster).
rebound 12 clicks out (bottom adjuster)

6.0 spring out back with sag properly set at 4"
Shock rebound 12 out (bottom)
shock compression 14 out (top screw)
High speed comp 16 out (knob)

this past week, I also drained, cleaned, and refilled the forks. I properly bled (per the Marzocchi articles) the inner chambers as a part of that process. The ride and handling was MARKEDLY improved, but still not that of my buds KTM(s).

 

[ray_ray]

This is kind of interesting ... Are your friends about your size? Is their suspension stock or what? Your bike is a TXC and you are on a track ... Are the KTMs racer or enduro models? I would guess any TXC would feel loose and sloppy on a track without some dialing in ... Not that I'm DeCoaster, but these bikes are trail bikes ... not racers ....

I'm riding my TXC (08 250) on a few tracks now but they are small and not really built too difficult ... Mostly like a small SX course out doors ... I can see issues with my bike on the track that I do not see when on the trail ....like very hard braking coming into corners that have un-even bumps causes the rear end to get a little squirrelly ... The forks feel OK but I'm sure they will bottom out if I jump very far ...same with the rear shock ... I'm only 150 lbs in gear so our setting should be different and I can't remember where mine are at but I don't remember moving any clickers more than 3-4 clicks off the stock settings ...

 

[andyman]

Specifically, we're talking about a 2003 EXC 450 and a 2010 300xc. They are smaller than me by at least 50lbs.

The exc has stock suspension and a damper, the 300xc has all manner of stuff done to it... susp revalve, flex bars, etc.

No track riding, this is all fast woods, and slow slow slow singletrack.
Even tooling around the grass at the campground, the difference is staggering.

I should also mention that the forks are at the 2nd band from the top in the top triple clamp. I haven't tried lowering or raising them in the clamps. I have also not changed the factory pre-load on the forks. The sag is correct in the forks as far as I can tell.

 

[ray_ray]

Like I said, I'm not DeCoaster but I'm sure someone here has some ideas for UR suspension ... I was lucky enough to bleed the air from my inner forks chambers, change to 5wt oil, turn the clickers and set the rear sag to get mine OK for me ... I had fairly bad deflection when I first got my bike but it is nearly zero now .... And the rear hard a big bang in it at high speeds ...

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

- I am a novice(first of all)
"poor handling" is very general to tune out- could be the bike set up (what it was made to do), (what size and skill level of rider) list goes on and on and the variables that need to be changed to make it work specifically for your purposes can range from a few clicks and adjustments to buying parts and sending off to tuners.

I am probably not the one to help you but I think you need to describe very specifically what is not working for you in what type of situation to recieve any good advice on a forum- other than "take it to a suspension tuner".

I would play with the sag, compression/rebound, tires, airpressure, and fork tube height. What I did was get the sag set- verify spring rates. Then I road the bike- and found some things I wanted to change- I decreased a little compression- road it liked it, increased rebound-road it liked it. etc... You have to commit to tuning it some. There is give and take- when you adjust for one situation, trail or track, you may have to adjust for another to reap the benifits again... So I could raise my fork legs for the tight woods section- but would also like them lowered for the fast sandy section... you end up finding a middle ground and sticking with that- unless you have a pro-mechanic following you around keeping data on each track/trail setting it up for you.

I think the Husky's are different than the Ktms in handeling- out of the box- some is much better- some you give up on from the start- Husky's seem more stable to me- and ktms turn very well (quicker). You end up being the difference whether it is how you ride it or how you set it up.

 

[hipsterdufus]

i had the same feeling in my 09 te250 after i rode my ktm 200, lower the forks in the triple clamp to almost flush with the cap. made a big difference...less of that pushy feel

 

[Motosportz]

Something is not setup right and your tires might be part of it. your TXC should easily be considered a better handling bike than a 03 KTM450. Need to work on your setup. Trying to help over the internet on an issue like this is near impossible.

 

[Dirtdame]

Something is not setup right and your tires might be part of it. your TXC should easily be considered a better handling bike than a 03 KTM450. Need to work on your setup. Trying to help over the internet on an issue like this is near impossible.

I agree there. My 07 TE450 handles better than an 07 EXC450.

 

[andyman]

Thanks for all the replies. I realize that there's no good way to go about resolving the issue via the internet. This is only the second bike that I've ever owned... My starter bike was a 2000 yz250. This one is light-years ahead of that one in terms of performance and handling. Like I said, I thought it rode really well until I got on someone else's. None of us could come up with anything other than: "I dunno man... somethings wrong and I don't like the way it feels.". That's why I turned to you guys for advice, even though I knew it would likely be fruitless. It's hard to diagnose what you can't feel for yourself. I suppose I will try and commit some time to documenting how it feels, make changes, document more, etc.

again, thanks for the assistance.

 

[Picklito]

I once went out with 40 psi in the front tire... and nearly crashed my brains out. Had put on a new tire, set the bead, and forgot to bleed it out. Any chance of something like that. It would RUIN the feel of a bike.

 

[XLEnduroMan]

Im no expert, but it is important to make sure you tighten up the spokes during break in, do it more then once until you know you got them settled. Loose spokes can make a bike handle terrible. I went over my triple tree bolts and handle bar posts and torqued to specs and it helped clear up a heavy/slow feeling front end from new. Make sure everything is tight, your tire pressure is where you want it, experiment with the clickers and I bet you will be squashing pumpkins with your roost in no time.

 

[andyman]

Thanks guys.

Air pressure was checked pre-ride and one day into the ride. 11psi. so that's not it. I'd bet 40psi would send you to the moon!

Spokes are good. I haven't tensioned them, but I do the "ping" test regularly.

All of the tree bolts are tq'd to spec. I did it after doing all the fluid changes and chamber bleeding, and again just before loading up to go ride.

I think I will set up a short course with markers so that I can try and do repeatable tests. take notes, make changes, take more notes, make more changes, etc.

 

[Droolsport]

I have heard the TE bikes actually turn better then the TXC's? Not sure if the geometry is different. I felt that the sag on my bike made a big difference. I run my sag around 110mm. Do you run a stabilizer? Make sure its not to tight. I forgot to reset mine once and was really struggling until I figured it out.

 

[andyman]

The rear race sag? I have a 6.0 spring out back, race sag is 4". I also checked static sag which is correct since putting on the 6.0 spring. This helped significantly with front push.

The front sag measured out okay, but I may increase it a little bit.

I do run a Motosportz damper. Set about half way seems to be where I like. Even when turned all the way to the hardest setting, with bike on a stand and front wheel off the ground, there's not a WHOLE LOT of damping force. So I don't think it's causing too stiff of a steering action. It does make a tremendous difference on the trail.

 

[andy j]

Hey i too swapped bikes a few weeks back with my buds immaculate ktm 2003 450 exc racing.. complete standard.. his bikes forks were noticebly smoother over bumps & resisted compression miles better.. like they were stiffer and smoother all in one.. this compared to my 2010 te 310 with 50mm shivers.. ive since put my hours on my bike and can get no where near the same feel.. i think i need stiffer springs..

it has been suggested that the fork springs are to soft for my weight 200lbs all up and my suspension is working it is stiffer part of its travel.. maybe this is the same for you..

handling wise my te 310 was much better.. way easier to turn and more planted than the 450 exc.. just that the forks were not plush. i have two rings showing above the clamps.. i think we have the same forks & shock.. if this helps..


regards

Andy

 

[andyman]

Interesting.

Mine's about 7 down. you can see in the pic in this thread:
http://www.cafehusky.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8094

 

[Motosportz]

I have heard the TE bikes actually turn better then the TXC's? Not sure if the geometry is different.

thats not been my findings at all. The TXC's IMHO turn better in our back to back testing. I do think the geometry is different as well as the TXC being lighter and strong motor wise. The TE always relieved itself as the milder softer version of the TXC. Just like it should be given it's intended purpose.

 

[Motosportz]

I do run a Motosportz damper. Set about half way seems to be where I like. Even when turned all the way to the hardest setting, with bike on a stand and front wheel off the ground, there's not a WHOLE LOT of damping force. So I don't think it's causing too stiff of a steering action. It does make a tremendous difference on the trail.

thanks

- I'm guessing having your suspension revalved for your needs would make a remarkable difference in your turning. A 6.0 in the rear and stock front seems very unbalanced to me.