Paging Tinken to the Oil Issues Hot Line.

[shilo020]

I've been following the discussions about using lower viscosity oils. The bikes have included the 449/511 and X-Lite. What about the Italian big blocks like mine? The '08,'09 TE250 and '08-'10TE 310,450,510. The manuals call for 10W-50. What about metal filters in these bikes?

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

I used Castrol 10w50 for a couple thousand miles, then switched to Mobil1 20w50, then found some Mobil1 15w50, ran that the longest, now, I am mixing 10w40 and 15w50, half and half, I figure that's like a 12w45.

14,000 miles and still running strong.

 

[huskyfrk]

i just run what the factory recommends, 10-6- dino for breaking, syn once it was broken in....

 

[Wolf]

Ran Amsoil 20 50 for a while. Now Mobil 15/50 or, when I'm out of that I run Rotella T6. 09 txc.

 

[Coffee]

I've been following the discussions about using lower viscosity oils. The bikes have included the 449/511 and X-Lite. What about the Italian big blocks like mine? The '08,'09 TE250 and '08-'10TE 310,450,510. The manuals call for 10W-50. What about metal filters in these bikes?

This thread is going to be all over the place (which is fine by me) - but if you specifically want Tinken's input, perhaps start a Conversation with him?

 

[shilo020]

I'm trying to get an answer on a very specific question about lower viscosity oil. It has been discused at length but only in relation to the newer bikes. What I want to know is will this be good for the engine and clutch on the ITA motors. I put it on an open thread because I thought it would be of interest to all of us with those bikes.

I have 4300 miles on my bike now using Motorex 10W-50. It's $37 plus filter each oil change. If I could use Mobil 1 0W-40 for $13 and have smoother clutch action and better lubrication then it's time for a change.

 

[7point62]

Hi Shilo020, for what it's worth, Huskysport (our UK distributor) continued to specify 10W-60 synthetic (the original factory specification) even after Husky head office moved to specifying Castrol 10W-50 for those "Cagiva" twincam motors - presumably because Castrol were tied in with BMW and didn't make a suitable 10W-60.

10W-60 synthetic isn't the easiest or cheapest oil to find - a local motorsport shop supplies Millers to me at slight discount, but it's still horrifically expensive, so I've also used the Motorex 10w-50 synthetic. There's no perceptible change in transmission action between the two here.

I realise I'm not being much help to you in your quest to find if 10W-40 is ok...

 

[street2dirt]

Maybe it's becuz I'm old but I don't get the mixing 10W & 15W to get 12.5W, this is hi quality multi-vis oil. Doesn't the 10W already cover 12.5W?

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

I'm trying to get an answer on a very specific question about lower viscosity oil.
I have 4300 miles on my bike now using Motorex 10W-50. It's $37 plus filter each oil change. If I could use Mobil 1 0W-40 for $13 and have smoother clutch action and better lubrication then it's time for a change.

If the manuf calls for a 60 weight, I myself would hesitate using a 40 weight oil, I realize I am not who you asked for, but I do have a big block motor with 14,000 miles, so, that's why I posted in the first place, I have real world experience with non-specified oil and the ITA motor. I can confidently recommend Mobil1 15w50 for the ITA motor, and I will be mixing it with 0w40 in the winter for a thinner start-up oil.

Maybe it's becuz I'm old but I don't get the mixing 10W & 15W to get 12.5W, this is hi quality multi-vis oil. Doesn't the 10W already cover 12.5W?

There is no Mobil1 10w50, that's is exactly what oil I would use. I would like to stay with a 50 weight (as close as I can get), but get something a little thinner for start-up, hence, mixing 10w40 with my existing bottles of 15w50.

 

[Tinken]

This thread is going to be all over the place (which is fine by me) - but if you specifically want Tinken's input, perhaps start a Conversation with him?

I think Shilo took you literally since I just got off the phone with him haha.

I've been following the discussions about using lower viscosity oils. The bikes have included the 449/511 and X-Lite. What about the Italian big blocks like mine? The '08,'09 TE250 and '08-'10TE 310,450,510. The manuals call for 10W-50. What about metal filters in these bikes?

We run 40 weight in all of our 310's as you know I am sure. You will be fine running 40 weight in the ITA engine. Running thinner oil gives you better flow which means higher cooling and higher bearing separation. Now if your oil pump has 14,000 miles on it, it might be harder to maintain minimum pressure at 150°C, but it would probably be fine too.

I am flattered you asked me directly for my advice, thank you. I apologize for not seeing the thread right away, I can't keep track of all the threads on this forum, especially on a ZipTy Monday crazy morning , but if you shoot me a PM and a link to your thread we'll be good to go.

 

[Wolf]

Never thought of mixing like OldHusky, but that's a good idea. Will try.

 

[Coffee]

...I apologize for not seeing the thread right away, I can't keep track of all the threads on this forum...

That's ok, I can't either

 

[Tinken]

I went over this with Ty today because I was worried about the bigger oil pumps in the older engines, but the oil pumps are identical from the older motors to the x-lites. So you may run Mobil 0w40. When cold, there is up to a 2hp increase and this may certainly ease up the pressure on your starter mechanisms.

 

[shilo020]

Thanks Tinken for checking on this for me. I think I will try this the next oil change. And change the oil more often with the reduced cost. Thanks to all who answered.

 

[huskyfrk]

i wonder why with the big block motors, my bike, a RR spec motard requires a 10-60... just asking. these motors tend to run hot, myself i would run a higher vis oil, even george at up-tite suggests the heavier oils....

 

[Tinken]

Back in the day when I used to design, build and race alcohol-nitro funny cars, I remember that I would always use high volume oil pumps. You could tell who traded them for high pressure pumps instead because those were the engines running oil out their bottoms after a race.

Viscosity is nothing more than a tool to regulate pressure at a given temperature, nothing else. In an attempt to provide more than adequate engine oil pressure at higher temperatures, people will often put higher viscosity oils into their engine not realizing that flow is inversely affected and they end up causing long term damage. It's a combination of both, not one or the other. I have seen this happen to professional race teams and not just motorcycles. By utilizing a lower viscosity of oil, your pressure will be lowered, but your flow volume is increased. Not only are you providing higher bearing separation, but you are significantly cooling the bearing surfaces as well. On the other hand, if you are running an engine with high engine wear/miles or with lower tolerances, a higher viscosity engine oil will be required (using viscosity as a tool again) to maintain adequate oil pressure.

Your engine doesn't float on oil, it floats on coolant.

Okay, so let's talk about Husqvarna engines. Husqvarna motorcycle engines tend to run hot and tend to lose their rod bearings. It's the number one failure in racing and happens with most all motorcycle engines. It's the one item in the engine that doesn't receive enough flow. Not pressure, but flow. At Zipty, we love to mod Husky cranks; we do this because we wish to add higher flow of oil to the rod bearing. This does two things; it provides a higher separation between bearing and journal and it provides much needed cooling that the bearing would not normally receive. Most engines cool their oil from contact with the case, some with oil coolers and some with heat transfer through the water jacket. If we could cool our oil sufficiently, we wouldn't even need water.

 

[water racer]

In the earlier thread, I thought you said the x-lite engines needed an oil with a certain spec of 17 at high temp and usually it takes a 50-60 weight oil to get that number. So are you saying go with a 40 weight for more flow and disregard the 17 number?

 

[water racer]

Back in the day when I used to design, build and race alcohol-nitro funny cars, I remember that I would always use high volume oil pumps. You could tell who traded them for high pressure pumps instead because those were the engines running oil out their bottoms after a race.

Viscosity is nothing more than a tool to regulate pressure at a given temperature, nothing else. In an attempt to provide more than adequate engine oil pressure at higher temperatures, people will often put higher viscosity oils into their engine not realizing that flow is inversely affected and they end up causing long term damage. It's a combination of both, not one or the other. I have seen this happen to professional race teams and not just motorcycles. By utilizing a lower viscosity of oil, your pressure will be lowered, but your flow volume is increased. Not only are you providing higher bearing separation, but you are significantly cooling the bearing surfaces as well. On the other hand, if you are running an engine with high engine wear/miles or with lower tolerances, a higher viscosity engine oil will be required (using viscosity as a tool again) to maintain adequate oil pressure.

Your engine doesn't float on oil, it floats on coolant.

Okay, so let's talk about Husqvarna engines. Husqvarna motorcycle engines tend to run hot and tend to lose their rod bearings. It's the number one failure in racing and happens with most all motorcycle engines. It's the one item in the engine that doesn't receive enough flow. Not pressure, but flow. At Zipty, we love to mod Husky cranks; we do this because we wish to add higher flow of oil to the rod bearing. This does two things; it provides a higher separation between bearing and journal and it provides much needed cooling that the bearing would not normally receive. Most engines cool their oil from contact with the case, some with oil coolers and some with heat transfer through the water jacket. If we could cool our oil sufficiently, we wouldn't even need water.

Yeah, my old Porsche 911 didn't use water, it was oil cooled with 11 quarts in a tank and a dry sump!

 

[Tinken]

You never owned a VW bug?

 

[Tinken]

In the earlier thread, I thought you said the x-lite engines needed an oil with a certain spec of 17 at high temp and usually it takes a 50-60 weight oil to get that number. So are you saying go with a 40 weight for more flow and disregard the 17 number?

I never said it takes a 50-60 to maintain a 17 CST @100°C. It actually takes less, Like Torco 10w40 is 16.25 cSt @ 100C. Mobil 0w40 is 14.5cst, but can range as high as 16 and is a good alternative for the $. I like to stay on the low side of that 17 for better flow as opposed to the high side for higher pressure.