No Spark

[icebergstu]

Hey peoples...

I have a 2006 TE610e - Flat slide carb model.

Got bike back from Mechanic after new rings.

Riding along and pulled into a dirt road at low RPM

Accidentally flicked the kill switch which made the bike cut out then immediately flicked it back on again which is when the trouble started.

Bike ran as if on idle jet only. Anything over the tiniest bit of throttle and it would try and stall. Seriously only able to do 5kph.

That didnt last long. Stopped. Couldnt re start. Got picked up and trailered home. (embarrassing)

Got home immediately thinking blocked jets and got to work pulling carb apart but all was perfect.

Checked for spark...NOTHING

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I dont have a multi meter and wouldnt have a clue how to use one.

I have a simple test lamp you connect to an earth that I use.

I have pulled apart the starter assembly switch which is brand new and looks good (10klm old)

Bike turns over beautifully.

I can stick a screw driver in the plug lead, turn it over and hold the metal part without the slightest shock. There is no electricity getting to that plug lead at all.

Coil is 10klm old.

The loom is 10klm old.

Key barrel is 10klm old.

Every electrical thing except the stator is 10klm old except the battery which I bought and installed today. Mechanic inspected and tested stator and found it to be in excellent condition last week.

The bike ran perfectly, started within milliseconds of touching the starter button. It was perfect...for 10klm.

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I need to figure this out before my head explodes...any ideas???

Stu

 

[juicypips]

just a wild stab in the dark, the ht lead the one from the coil to the spark plug is tight and good? as if the heads been off im guessing the coil was removed, so the ht lead screws in onto a screw type thread both on the plug cap and on the coil, also check the wires are connected to the back of the coil.
has the bike got a supressed plug cap also is it running resistor plugs, how old is the cap? as the resistors can break down over time normally a long while but not too uncommon.
hope this makes sence..

 

[icebergstu]

just a wild stab in the dark, the ht lead the one from the coil to the spark plug is tight and good? as if the heads been off im guessing the coil was removed, so the ht lead screws in onto a screw type thread both on the plug cap and on the coil, also check the wires are connected to the back of the coil.
has the bike got a supressed plug cap also is it running resistor plugs, how old is the cap? as the resistors can break down over time normally a long while but not too uncommon.
hope this makes sence..

Brand new Coil Lead - took plug cap off, put the exposed end near earth, turned bike over and still no spark.

You definitely dont remove the coil to take the head off. On the 06 and after, the coil is located in an isolated spot.

What else can you think of?

Stu

 

[juicypips]

pulse generator from the stator/flywheel side, it connects to the cdi. not sure how you measure the state of it without a multimeter, could try hooking up the continuity screwdriver through two leads, not sure what colour as mine are yello red and black n yellow if i remember correctly.
your ig switch wires arent loose, seems strange that a new coil has no spark.. signs point to loose connection somewhere, you said you had stator checked, possibility those wires arnt pushed home completly on the bullet connectors?

 

[DYNOBOB]

Bad contacts in kill switch? Meters are cheap and easy to use, will show things a test light can't.

Check for any ground wires that might have been disconnected while head/cylinder were off.

Blown fuse?



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[icebergstu]

All wires going to coil are rock solid.

I have tried disconnecting the stator lead, then switching the bike on and turned the motor over while putting the tester (its one of those screw driver looking ones that lights up with power) in each wire plug as its turning over. I did not get any result from any wire either way.

Im sure power is supposed to be going to the stator with ignition on. If there is no power entering the stator wires then the problem is surely before that section wouldnt you think?

 

[icebergstu]

Bad contacts in kill switch? Meters are cheap and easy to use, will show things a test light can't.

Check for any ground wires that might have been disconnected while head/cylinder were off.

Blown fuse?





.

Replaced the fuses just in case to no avail.

Brand new ignition switch but the problem only started when I flicked it off and back on again whilst moving...just makes no sense.

 

[icebergstu]

With Ignition on, there is definitely no live wires going to the stator...just went out an re-checked.

 

[DYNOBOB]

?

On all my bikes power comes from the stator, and only when the bike is running. First to a reg/rect and then to the battery.


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[icebergstu]

?

On all my bikes power comes from the stator, and only when the bike is running. First to a reg/rect and then to the battery.


.

So with the ignition on and the bike turning over, you would think that there would be some type of power lighting up my tester when I place it against the connections wouldn't you?

And if there is not then what could this be due to? Considering the bike was running extremely well until a flick of the kill switch changed all that.

Stu

 

[DYNOBOB]

The power coming from the stator wires is AC current, could be as high as 75 volts. A test light is not going to work.

Either way bad stator shouldn't be causing no spark, just no charging of the battery (unless older 610's are a different animal).

If you get a inexpensive multi meter, you can set it on continuity (buzz) mode and verify the kill switch is working.

Working you way backwards from the problem, loss of spark could be from:
1.Bad coil
2.No signal coming from ecu telling coil to make spark
3.No power to ecu
Interruption due to:
bad ignition switch
bad kill switch
bad kickstand switch (don't think you have one)
bad tip-over stitch (don't think your TE has one)

Someone w/ a 610 wiring schematic can prob suggest where to check power to ecu, etc.

Maybe Santa can bring you a multi-meter...


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[icebergstu]

I uploaded the full mechanics work shop manual with all wiring schematics a few years ago.

Here is the electrical section:
http://www.adrive.com/public/Nz6PHF/sm-te 610, 06- chapter M.pdf

It explains what I am looking at but not why I have no spark...

We can rule out:

Coil, ECU, ignition switch, kickstand switch (dont have) and Tip over switch (dont have) as these are brand new along with every other electrical component.

Im getting a multi meter off the old man today but still wont have a clue on how to use it.

Stu

 

[DYNOBOB]

Don't rule anything out just because it's new. Check to see that all those new components were plugged in tight. This may be a dumb question, but why were all those electrical components just replaced? Who did the work?

Once you have a meter and understand a couple things about how it works there are many things you can test. They're not difficult to understand once you study it. Google "how to use a voltmeter/multi meter". You may want to post a pic of the meter.



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[icebergstu]

These were all replaced due to the bike having done 25,000 klm of Single Track over a 4 year period.

The loom had worn through in many spots, the connections were in poor condition, insulation brittle, control switches faulty etc.

I purchased the new loom and controls from Halls as genuine parts. (Cheers Jeff, your a Legend!)

I pulled the old loom and controls off and installed the new one. Once tank and plastics are off its an hours job.

I then took the bike for a new timing chain and rings by a Mechanic that has been working on HVA for the last 40 years and owns 4 610's.

He did the work and the bike started at the first sniff of the starter.

As I said, rode it a few kays, flicked the kill switch and now it has no spark...

Dont have the old KS anymore either as it was completely stuffed.

I have the mult and will start the learning process when I get home.

Bear with me mate, your help is valuable and I appreciate it very much.

Stu

 

[KXcam22]

Keep posting your test results and we will be happy to help you through it. Cam.

ps with electrical troubleshooting the cause is usually related to (but not always) the last thing you did or touched. In this case I would suspect the kill switch as #1 culprit. As you can see on page M.8 the kill switch grounds the CDI. An easy test is to disconnect the kill switch electrical connector and see if spark is restored. While it is disconnected, use the meter to verify that it gounds and ungrounds one of the wires in the kill swich connector end. Cam.

 

[Motosportz]

sheared flywheel key. Your kill switch while riding could do this. This is a semi common issue and will put your bike out of time. It might start but might not take throttle.

 

[icebergstu]

I now have a multi meter but dont know how to use it to diagnose anything.

My test lamp and bridging the starter connections without the swtich assembly on makes no difference.

With Ignition on:

I cant find any active power to the coil.

I cant find active power at the CDI although the tip of the test lamp may not be long enough to get down to make contact.

Stu

 

[DYNOBOB]

First things first, do you know where the continuity setting is on the meter. It's the setting where the meter will buzz if you touch the leads together.

To check the kill switch, follow the wires from the bars the where the switch plugs into the harness. Should have five wires, unplug from harness. On the switch side of harness, check to see if the meter buzzes when you probe the white/orange stripe and green/red stripe wires with the switch in the run position. Should stop buzzing if you hit the switch.

On the bike side of harness check for 12v on the white/orange when the key is on. Meter should buzz with one lead on blue and one on the frame.

.

 

[DYNOBOB]

sheared flywheel key. Your kill switch while riding could do this. This is a semi common issue and will put your bike out of time. It might start but might not take throttle.

He would still get spark wouldn't he?


.

 

[icebergstu]

First things first, do you know where the continuity setting is on the meter. It's the setting where the meter will buzz if you touch the leads together.

To check the kill switch, follow the wires from the bars the where the switch plugs into the harness. Should have five wires, unplug from harness. On the switch side of harness, check to see if the meter buzzes when you probe the white/orange stripe and green/red stripe wires with the switch in the run position. Should stop buzzing if you hit the switch.

On the bike side of harness check for 12v on the white/orange when the key is on. Meter should buzz with one lead on blue and one on the frame.

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Ok....the meter starts at 30.7 then when I touch the probes together it goes to zero...I think this is the right setting (upside down horseshoe shape)

I Put red probe in Orange/white and Gr/Red and it wont change at all.

I put it on Orange/White and the other on Gr/White and hit the starter button and it will buzz.

On the Bike side - when power on and one probe on Orange/white I get 6.8mv - on Green/Red I get 12.9mv

What does all this mean?