Moto Psychology Ques (for marketing)

[robertaccio]

It seems from most indications, that we all know that the rider is the most responsible for how fast a machine is in competition or just play riding.
example: if Cairoli is riding a stock TE250 he will beat anyone here or in most riding circles no matter how hopped up or size their bike is.
So why is it that all bikers constantly spend money on and bling out their bikes, adding HP etc., but don't seem to work on themselves example: spend cash on ride schools (Dirtwise,ChampFactory,RynoInstitute etc), moto training clinics(RynoInstitute,211MX,MXVacations etc), personal moto specific performance products,(CytoMax,RynoPower,Brux[?]).
Also generally motorcyclists are so very resistant to new ideas and technology, from bike specific items to again personal performance items (think about all the FI discussions etc. and see above for the other personal stuff).
As we pull our minimal sponsorship from this site and get bombarded with uneducated pessimistic comments about our product on other sites, I am trying to get a sense of why it seems everyone is afraid to try new things and if not even try or research new ideas and technology. Why do they feel so strongly to slag and feel powerful by putting down a product or other disparaging off color personal remarks. Anyone? Ideas? How cool do we need to be to get our product into the mouths of riders, I bet many have spent 100s on energy drinks (that really are junk food) but I guess those are cool to wear and drink (put in one's mouth). I am after some Psychology of our market. Thanks, this site is one of the most logical, educated and mature forums out in the internet world, throw me some bones folks. Thanks RN

 

[ghte]

I think bike riding in may cases takes us back to our youth when we all rode pretty basic machines and just having fun was the rule of the day. As adults with disposable incomes we want to either recapture the day or stay in contact with it. This means trammelling comfortable lines. As a consequence audacious designs, revolutionary concepts or visual ques that detract from the magical mythical past are often discarded on emotional rather than technical grounds. A classic example is why did I buy a Ducati, sure it handles really well, but the motor is a dinosaur and needs a lot of TLC. But, and this is where attachment from the past comes in, it was pretty and somewhat exotic back then at it remains so today. The same might be said for Huskies too. Great memories and happy times is very evocative to us mere mortals. We love the functional. simplistic retro look (but it must have behind the scenes reliability) and are prepared to pay for it. Nothing too deep here to analyse, just humans clinging on to seemingly happier times. So what do you rekon?

 

[ray_ray]

So why is it that all bikers constantly spend money on and bling out their bikes, adding HP etc., but don't seem to work on themselves example: spend cash on ride schools (Dirtwise,ChampFactory,RynoInstitute etc), moto training clinics(RynoInstitute,211MX,MXVacations etc), personal moto specific performance products,(CytoMax,RynoPower,Brux[?]).

UR gonna have to broaden your perspective as it is not just with bikes ... But bikes are a good example as any....

Human nature has a lot to do here ... Part ego, part ignorance, part got too much money, part 'young and ??' , and most actually want to get better and think spending money will get them there ... americans are bombarded with the 'spend money' attitude from birth almost .. We are a very rich country from top to bottom ... 'Wants and needs' are not understood ... The schools can help but very expensive ... The performance stuff can help but most just ride 2 days a week... lol ...

Also generally motorcyclists are so very resistant to new ideas and technology, from bike specific items to again personal performance items (think about all the FI discussions etc. and see above for the other personal stuff).

As we pull our minimal sponsorship from this site and get bombarded with uneducated pessimistic comments about our product on other sites, I am trying to get a sense of why it seems everyone is afraid to try new things and if not even try or research new ideas and technology.

Again, most older, mature people don't like change (in anything) ESP if the cost goes up and RISK goes up and overall performance is very small (Where's the beef??) ... Bikes are a luxury and expensive to 98% of people that ride ... I don't need a better bike if it's gonna cost more ... Its just more ~bling really...

Why do they feel so strongly to slag and feel powerful by putting down a product or other disparaging off color personal remarks. Anyone? Ideas? How cool do we need to be to get our product into the mouths of riders,

Thats life ... Free speech ... Takes all kinds to make the world go around ... etc .. How cool? Steve McQueen and Malcolm Smith rode Huskies... we are all just wanna bees after them

I bet many have spent 100s on energy drinks (that really are junk food) but I guess those are cool to wear and drink (put in one's mouth).

Yep, we waste alot of money in a life time ... Our society teaches us nothing but spend money... We are all at the ~3rd grader level when it comes to money management... Did you notice the usa went belly up due to spending? It was very educational on how the money flows from the printing press to our level ... Part of the answer was for us to keep spending... laughable ...

I am after some Psychology of our market. Thanks, this site is one of the most logical, educated and mature forums out in the internet world, throw me some bones folks. Thanks RN

Be-careful what you are asking here as you might not like what you find ... Life, as promoted in the usa via the web & boob tube, is full of BS ... if you look close and listen ,.. U will see who the joke is really on

This site is pretty cool .... ESP for the riders ...

PS -- I quit working 2 yrs ago so I can write all day & night OR ride my Husky (!blinged) all day as today, ...

 

[robertaccio]

Thank you gents for those inputs, see this and see the comments section. More would be appreciated.
http://www.racerxonline.com/article/xmas-countdown-day-4-2-2010.aspx



Even with citations and a bibliography of scientific medical studies as well as a list of a who's who in world class level athletics, the average rider (our potential customers) dismiss our product as bunk... I just dont get it.

example info from competitors brand http://bitetech.com/assets/Compendium_Aug09.pdf

 

[Motosportz]

Your product has no bling factor, does not shout "look at my cool bike and cool stuff" and is one more thing in a long line of crap to attached to your body before riding. Might be viewed as cumbersome and uncomfortable. Is it a good honest product that has advantages, yes, I'm sure it is. Does it make a difference, yes i bet it does. But there is no fun emotional attachment and instant gratification to it which a lot of people strive for in this sport of expensive fun. I can see how your product would be a real hard sell even though it is probably very good and has many benefits. Outside of hard core racers who realize the advantages it is going to be a tough sale. I still have not got on the knee brace and neck brace bandwagon. It is a similar thing. Might look at how those industries advertise and how you might relate your product to those as leverage to make the customer understand it better. Just my random thoughts.

 

[robertaccio]

Do we start to get the Kardashian girls to use our product to get sales,,, It seems that we are obsessed with the Hollywood thing and only the "celebs" are worthy of news and attention and following,,,,,we are dumbing further and further, John Lennon had some good lyrics about that.
We (BRUX) all ready have World champions(Cairoli), Gold medal olympians(Svindal), World champMX racers(Hughes), Nat champions(Patterson), Rally drivers(Block) at the world championship level, world class freestyle MXers(Maddison), World champ skate boarders, Olympic snowboarders (Brown), world class Soccer(footballers)(Ronaldo), EU baseball team(the whole National champ team!!)World championship roadracers, using and endorsing our product...............I guess moto sport mouthpieces still not cool,, sort of like helmets when racers started wearing them or seat belts as well. In this market only NFL football and NHL hockey are acceptable sports to wear quality mouthwear. My rant is complete, I will stick to bike stuff from now on.

 

[Motosportz]

Do we start to get the Kardashian girls to use our product to get sales,,, It seems that we are obsessed with the Hollywood thing and only the "celebs" are worthy of news and attention and following,,,,,we are dumbing further and further, John Lennon had some good lyrics about that.
We (BRUX) all ready have World champions(Cairoli), Gold medal olympians(Svindal), World champMX racers(Hughes), Nat champions(Patterson), Rally drivers(Block) at the world championship level, world class freestyle MXers(Maddison), World champ skate boarders, Olympic snowboarders (Brown), world class Soccer(footballers)(Ronaldo), EU baseball team(the whole National champ team!!)World championship roadracers, using and endorsing our product...............I guess moto sport mouthpieces still not cool,, sort of like helmets when racers started wearing them or seat belts as well. In this market only NFL football and NHL hockey are acceptable sports to wear quality mouthwear. My rant is complete, I will stick to bike stuff from now on.

I think you took my post wrong. And i agree with what you say. It is an instant gratification world and everyone trying to get attention (bright orange KTM parts anyone?) I believe your product is very good and has real merit, I was simply commenting on peoples motivation to buy stuff in this industry. My main point was from a marketing standpoint you should relate them to neck braces and knee gaurds and relate the importance.

It's all good to talk about them here and you might get good feedback to further your effort. No need for "My rant is complete, I will stick to bike stuff from now on." as you are not ranting your informing. It's all good, keep at it and try to learn more about what makes people understand and buy stuff.

 

[robertaccio]

K,
thanks this what I am welcoming, any constructive criticisms and ideas are welcomed. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
It has alot to do with personal ideas like you mentioned as you are not with the neck/knee brace deal, that is a very debatable issue as well, for example Ryno basically rides "naked" no neck braces, knee braces, no chest protector, he believes that all those items restrict you and cause less control, which can lead to more crashes.
for me I am close to that as well minimal is best for more control. R

K I wrote that before I read your post. I was writing that at the same time you were putting together your post.

 

[HuskyT]

Rob - This is a good discussion topic!

The same can be said about many different types of safety gear...

As my daughter is heavily involved in girls softball the subject of protective gear comes up all the time..

Girls ( and specifically pitchers) can now wear face protectors to protect them from getting hit in the face by line drives. Over the last season we had several girls get hit either by line drives or by accidentally walking into the path of a thrown ball or just plain missing the catch.

Several of the infielders and a couple of the outfielders were hit in the face and teeth with balls.

We have only one girl in the league wearing a face protector out of 40 or so pitchers.... she is very good. Are all of the rest of the parents of these girls stupid or just not aware or is it not cool?

Softball and Baseball account for the majority of Dental sports injuries in youth.

Our local Pediatric dentist offers free mouth guards and fitment to any
girl that requests one.... so far about four takers and I ashamedly am not one of them yet...

I lost both of my adult front teeth to a line drive at first base that I "Missed" when I was 11. Broken out teeth , crowns and root canals on both by age 12....

As my daughter has gotten serious about the sport, I'm taking up my pediatric dentist on his offer before springball starts...

@ Kelly... I feel my Leaat has saved me at least twice now in major crashes on the track... my own mistakes of course... pretty sore and prety bruised but still walking.... but I hear you about just not jumping on the bandwagon... a lot of people don't .. what does it take or when does safety gear get to the point where it takes the fun factor out of the event????? I am asking this question as a general thought ... not specifically of you... and for further discussion.

T

 

[J.R.]

America is concerned about image more than anything. I don't mean to "slag" a company, but look at Harley-Davidson. They sell an image to 90% of their customers. The other ten actually want a bike for reasons similar to us: to ride, sentimental, ect... but that 90% want to look cool, be in the cool crowd, be an "outlaw", etc... (numbers are made up obviously, but probably close to the truth)

Maybe its because most Americans aren't happy with their own image and also, like stated above, are trained to spend money...

If you can make a product that everyone thinks is cool, you're set! You just have to pump out as much product as you can before it goes out of style. It's sad that our country is so focused on idols and images, but true

 

[robertaccio]

Additional personal product discussion, I have a Leatt that I now rarely wear. I think that if I hit the MX track I might be inclined to wear it, just because of the longer higher jumps and easier potential for higher speed OTB crashes. However for trail riding in our regular zones our speed averages are in the 15mph range.
As for knee braces I wear POD MX but really not for the brace characteristic more for the impact protection coverage they offer, the Rt lower brace assy was recently cracked in 2 from a log impact I was swollen and sore but that thing really absorbed and dispersed major energy that was going to be in my shin bone area and had no race DNF!!.
I used to wear my acerbis zoom XL size chest/back roost protector but recently have gone to the minimalistic acerbis chest protector, I feel less impact protected but have much more ease of movement (=more control, less chance for crash???Ryno logic).
As for our mouthwear product for me at my level it leans more towards an ergonomic device it creates a comfort barrier between the hard surfaces of the teeth to absorb vibes for anti fatigue, it also gives that gum feeling of having bite the bullet thing to clench down on and really seems to allow for more post ride comfort as well (a little more refreshed less worn out).
The helmet choice is also a major personal device for comfort and alot of fatigue reduction, so much more fatigue reduction than I ever thought possible. This for me is right at the top the personal items list for better more comfortable riding.

So for me and in my idea (very personal) I always try to find tools/ways to make riding less of a chore and less fatiguing. My machines have always been tuned for torque and as mellow as possible* this is what I aim for in my personal equipment/supplements as well, so as far as devices go I really think in minimalist process but aim for comfort and fatigue reduction (good boots,helmet,clothing gear,mouthwear,food intake) over outright performance.
*08 TXC450 added C/B shaft Assy, PN and PN plus, JD jetting, All basically stock including leaving in my OEM dB/spark screen plug (super restrictive as you all know) to keep the bike as mellow as possible.

 

[robertaccio]

Again thanks Cafe crew, more inputs the better. We have the image of champions from many disciplines for our product, but it still needs an image of a standard use safety/ergo item......like gloves, helmet boots etc..we even portrayed that from brainstorming one of our intitial adverts with Max Neukirchner "gloves,helmet,lights on and Brux".
another big issue, How do you guys see our price point?
(I have much to say, but would like to hear, before I say anything)
another issue brought up is the Bling thing good point, and it may be an issue, however we thought that the 4 colors plus the flag model would figure in to the fashion/bling thing, we even added the "faces" section to the EU site with everyone making fun smiles,goofy faces and showing their bite colors off, bling/fun fashion style. Thanks again R

 

[ray_ray]

Yep .. the Kardashian girls will sell more Huskies ... Bmw knows this ... ...

"There's a sucker born every minute" is a phrase often credited to P. T. Barnum (1810–1891), an American showman. It is generally taken to mean that there will always be many gullible people in the world.

 

[mtne]

Couple of off the cuff initial thoughts...... from a cheap bastige

$100 / # time I actually got to ride off road this last year...... way too much..... damn sad and I hope that changes.

I'm not a world class rider...... why would I need one.

I've never noticed any teeth/jaw issues when riding..... hmm I'll have to see if I grit or grind and clench when riding. I don't think so tho.....

Makes perfect sense to use but I'm not sure I would, much like the leatt... and part of that is the money. A much lower price point would make me consider it. Or seeing my bud's teeth shattered from a crash.......

random tired thoughts.........

 

[robertaccio]

Thanks all,
mtne , me 2 same type of bastage.
I will throw more info out there for the sake of more conversation.
Price point has been established in relation to our competitors dental manufacturer company performance mouth wear, underarmor,makka and some others. And price point is quite low for a dental company manufactured dual compound mouthpiece.
Value?, well there is not much thought given from most consumers looking at the simple looking device however: we are talking about a device that goes into your mouth and over your teeth, its a real personal item and anything that can prevent oral injury has some good value. Plus it is manufactured by a dental appliance company under the design specs of prominent Drs. in the dental sciences world who have years of research into inner ear balance and (TMJ) jaw position. As far as the performance stats, studies have found up to a 3% gain in overall athletic performance while wearing a bite, translation for top tier athletes, thats 1st or 10th place finish, less weight lifted for weight lifters, (for example).
Again that relates to the top tier athletes (Pros). For us regular and weekend warriors it relates to comfort, ergos, anti fatigue and energy absorbtion in the case of impacts that may lessen concussions. (there are no real scientific studies done in this issue, its a tough one to study.....slam your helmeted head with a bite and without one....tough way to test the logic). However most Drs. agree that a good mouthpiece can and will reduce the concussive force levels transmitted into your gourd. (See Hockey and Football), but now even there they are doing double duty as both impact absorbing and performance mouthwear, Mr. T.O. is strong proponent of his unsponsored purchase of his expensive UA bites.
Safety, Safety, hmmm maybe thats more the angle. everyone that plays US football just naturally wears a bite, mostly by regulation now, has anyone every seen helmeted football players with shattered teeth, do we encounter the same forces as US football players, I would estimate that we do all day long just from slamming over obstacles then the occaisional crash for sure does. AT the kids level it seems they wear those Chinese(or from some plastics maker) made 5 buck devices, The Pros use bites that cost anywhere from 300 to 1500 bucks,,,,our price point comes up again. again thanks for all of your inputs.

 

[ARod2000]

Humm. I didn't know about this product application for our sport. I'm inclined to try one but agree with others on the price point. Honestly, I think what would sell me on buying it is seeing the pros use it. $100 isn't much and I'd easily spend it if I believed it would help. Not just one sponsored racer using your product but several of them. I race a ton and I've never seen anyone using a product like this.

Now if you're looking to get the word out and have some racers sample your product, I'm your man!

 

[robertaccio]

ARod2000
Thanks for the input, I am keeping an eye on what all of you are saying, dont want break rules for adverts, (coffee and the other watchdog team will fillet me) I want to maintain my good standing here, just wanted to gather some valuable marketing ideas from the general riding public (and this site has the most mature and logical folks on board IMHO). ANd all your comments are well taken, also note I am very thick skinned and constructive negatives are no issue with me either. thanks R

 

[glangston]

Your product has no bling factor, does not shout "look at my cool bike and cool stuff" and is one more thing in a long line of crap to attached to your body before riding. Might be viewed as cumbersome and uncomfortable. Is it a good honest product that has advantages, yes, I'm sure it is. Does it make a difference, yes i bet it does. But there is no fun emotional attachment and instant gratification to it which a lot of people strive for in this sport of expensive fun. I can see how your product would be a real hard sell even though it is probably very good and has many benefits. Outside of hard core racers who realize the advantages it is going to be a tough sale. I still have not got on the knee brace and neck brace bandwagon. It is a similar thing. Might look at how those industries advertise and how you might relate your product to those as leverage to make the customer understand it better. Just my random thoughts.

I did think it was pretty cool when the coach said get a cup, you're going to be playing catcher.. That was in the 50's and there was little bling in sports. Maybe that's the theme Robert should take on.

ETA at this time there was no headgear in baseball. Interesting that they thought to protect the family jewels before anything else. I wore that cup even playing 3rd base and always felt it gave me an edge because I didn't worry about a bad bounce.

 

[boisedave]

A couple of things to add from an average Joe:

Rob -- I'm game and I see your point about the bling vs. the body. Makes sense to me and I actually try to keep that in mind in my training and stuff. As for the product, I'm intrigued and would consider it, but need a bit more info and some reviews in a dirt mag to see if its worth the $100. I usually end up buying that sort of stuff after I;ve read about it or talked to someone using it. FWIW -- I chew gum when I ride because I think it helps my focus. Strange but true.

One last thing -- Rob is right about technology and the like. Just look at how much fun Kelly has on his stable of ancient [and broken ] iron. Sure the new stuff feels tighter and might make getting down the trail easier and "cooler" but in the end its just about the rider and how much fun you are having.

I routinely ride with a guy who doesn't own any dirt bike gear -- workboots, Carharts, etc.. rides with an open face helmet on a 2006 KTM 450 and this guy can ride circles around me. Really cool.

The best thing about the sport for me is the feeling of twisting the throttle and moving down the trail with my friends and bench racing during stops and around the fire. Certainly don't need state of the art for that. Racing is a bit of a different story though...

 

[robertaccio]

We were reviewed a while back by Chris Dennison in DR JAN09 however that was the series 1 upper bite, which was a larger frame device.

We hope to be back in DR () with a review of the new ("bikini") series 2 standard lower sports bite that everyone uses now. I have the DR review to send if anyone requests it.