MOSS in OZ

[glitch_oz]

Just had an email from one of the AUS ADVrider fraternity:

I had a fall on my Terra and I broke my instruments and the bike won't run without them! If I buy new instruments, the dealer (in Perth - Tyers for Bikes) can't program it to work. The dealer told me to take the bike to the BMW dealer so they can use the moss tool to program the instruments to the bike. On contacting the BMW dealer they said they can't do it.
Do you know a way I can fix this problem!
CheersHendo

Thought I check First Class M/C in Lilydale, as they always had a MOSS, with the idea possibly Hendo buying the part through therm, mailing across his ECU+key as well, possibly hooking it into my bike/ another bike (if that's what it takes), then mail the whole package back to him.
Just an idea...I know, I know!

"The old MOSS is dead, dismantled and offline by BMW, it's called OSS now and there isn't a dealer in the country who's taken that up... and that includes us!!

No, haven't got a clue if or when things might change nor through whom the new system might be distributed or run, it's all up in the air!"

Onto PFG in Nerang/ Qld then, having a good, old chat with the National Service Manager.
And confirmation what I'd just heard from Adam in Lilydale.
Principally any BMW bike- dealer can deal with the TR's + Nudas as the wiring + plugs/ electrical+electronic system are principally identical. That much for the "access-to-the-systems".


BUT****************************************!



While the old MOSS was a standalone piece of software distributed to the dealers via CD/DVD, the new OSS is way more geeky and ties into the basics of the (Win7) operating system of the interface computer. It also cost $$ to buy again...which all comes down to the dealers being faced with the question of

1) how long and how expensive is it going to be to get the new OSS up + running? (as well as that machine being unavailable for other work while some computer-whisperer tries to get it all setup)

2) will they ever see enough of those few TRs+Nudas to make a $$ profit out of it?

All of which is leaving our friend Hendo in Perth high+dry without a working instrument cluster, quite possibly forever, or at least a long, long time...he'll just start the cue of folks with one electronic issue or another (lost keys/damaged ECUs etc) who'll have to ship their bike to Nerang in Queensland for the sole place on the continent to have a working OSS (and someone who knows how to "drive it"!).

I certainly hope things will change in the future....might even have to get a group of local owners together at a dealer's place on a Saturday morning and discuss things with the shop-owner....or buy the software as an owners group or something.
Expenses are actually quite reasonable and there are a lot of IT guys involved in this bike-caper who might be able to help out installing and rigging the software to make it usable.

And just in case someone's desperate enough to load up their dead Terra/Strada/Nuda for a
fortnight's return trip of 8000km from Perth to Brisbane, here are the contact details:
Paul Feeney Group Pty Ltd
1/24 Palings Ct, Nerang QLD 421
Phone 07 5596 0718

 

[kiwiape]

glitch_oz. Get Hendo to pm me please?

 

[Chuffa]

I've got a damaged (but working) instrument cluster that I've messaged Hendo about. I'm going to try & fit it & see if it works. It might work just because it was previously fitted to my bike but if it doesn't, then we will know that you definitely need to hook it up to the computer. If it does work then I can send it out to Hendo to try.

 

[glitch_oz]

glitch_oz. Get Hendo to pm me please?

I don't think he's on here !?, only know him through ADVrider.

I've got a damaged (but working) instrument cluster that I've messaged Hendo about. I'm going to try & fit it & see if it works. It might work just because it was previously fitted to my bike but if it doesn't, then we will know that you definitely need to hook it up to the computer. If it does work then I can send it out to Hendo to try.

Sounds like a plan, particularly since you're local.
According to both, local dealer and PFG Service Manager the instrument cluster is specific to the bike and is part of the "coded components", which also include the key.
If you get your old cluster working on his bike, that'd be something worth noting (who knows.... all it might need is one initial "wake-up call" to become active).
It'd be great if you could try.

 

[kiwiape]

I've got a damaged (but working) instrument cluster that I've messaged Hendo about. I'm going to try & fit it & see if it works. It might work just because it was previously fitted to my bike but if it doesn't, then we will know that you definitely need to hook it up to the computer. If it does work then I can send it out to Hendo to try.

I very much doubt it will work, the dash, key and ECU are all coded. You need the "programming" part of the MOSS to instal them.

 

[glitch_oz]

Suspecting the same....and since the BMW MOSS-Central is offline and scrapped , things aren't looking too pretty.
Still worth a try though...one never knows.
Forgot to ask Hendo if he'd checked the RF pickup ring connection after the prang, there've been instances of that going bust in a pretzeler resulting in the EWS error/ dead bike.
There's a fix for that.

 

[snail_72]

I've got a damaged (but working) instrument cluster that I've messaged Hendo about. I'm going to try & fit it & see if it works. It might work just because it was previously fitted to my bike but if it doesn't, then we will know that you definitely need to hook it up to the computer. If it does work then I can send it out to Hendo to try.

I have had my dash replaced 3 times now and each time a dash is changed it need the moss system.. new going on or old going back on.. i have a spare dash "some how" that was attached to my bike and for it to go back on the moss is needed.

 

[glitch_oz]

I have had my dash replaced 3 times now and each time a dash is changed it need the moss system.. new going on or old going back on.. i have a spare dash "some how" that was attached to my bike and for it to go back on the moss is needed.

Gotcha. Sort of what I expected....each time any component needs to be "integrated" into the pre-designated batch of parts, they all get flashed with a rolling/random code through the
central online system.
Btw...still got any of the old dashes? Would love to fiddle around with one to hook up an external M/S button to remotely change display.
Had a go at it, but was most likely too careful to not wreck my dash in the process. DandyDisco has done one like that ....

 

[mag00]

Gotcha. Sort of what I expected....each time any component needs to be "integrated" into the pre-designated batch of parts, they all get flashed with a rolling/random code through the
central online system.
Btw...still got any of the old dashes? Would love to fiddle around with one to hook up an external M/S button to remotely change display.
Had a go at it, but was most likely too careful to not wreck my dash in the process. DandyDisco has done one like that ....

I have to pull my dash apart and do that mod. My button quit working, so when I finally got it to the ODO, I have left it there. I sure would like to toggle to trip and even temp and gallons used.

 

[johnsweet]

just spoke to the services manager at Hall's, said they installed a new dash on a TR650 and sent it to BMW to program it, runs fine

 

[Gibster]

I have to pull my dash apart and do that mod. My button quit working, so when I finally got it to the ODO, I have left it there. I sure would like to toggle to trip and even temp and gallons used.

I've had to open mine up twice for the same problem. pushing too hard on it cocks it to the side and won't contact switch. Easy fix really. I stopped pushing it with gloves on.

 

[DeLewis]

Ok, this is getting confusing... I just rang Byrners Motorbikes in Seaford, Victoria (Australia) and asked if they still have access to MOSS to service our bikes. Answer: "Yes but it's a $10,000 paperweight - Munich shut it down."

BUT, he also said that the new KTM software package that they already have is setup to service the TRs and Nudas. However, they are just waiting for the cable that allows them to plug the machine/software into our bikes! He reckons they have been waiting "bloody ages" for it and doesn't know when it will arrive.

So, is this reason for hope?! Who knows. So far I haven't heard this info corroborated anywhere else... Anyway, I shall keep calling from time to time.

 

[glitch_oz]

I've had to open mine up twice for the same problem. pushing too hard on it cocks it to the side and won't contact switch. Easy fix really. I stopped pushing it with gloves on.

In some instances the tiny "arm" that actually contacts the board has broken off. And they're not available as a spare, either.

 

[glitch_oz]

Ok, this is getting confusing... I just rang Byrners Motorbikes in Seaford, Victoria (Australia) and asked if they still have access to MOSS to service our bikes. Answer: "Yes but it's a $10,000 paperweight - Munich shut it down."

BUT, he also said that the new KTM software package that they already have is setup to service the TRs and Nudas. However, they are just waiting for the cable that allows them to plug the machine/software into our bikes! He reckons they have been waiting "bloody ages" for it and doesn't know when it will arrive.

So, is this reason for hope?! .

Yes, it is!!

It all confirms what was said before...the old MOSS died with the BMW ownership (or sometime after), the new KTM-derived package hasn't (as yet, at least) been taken up
by the dealers. While the BMW dealers have got the hardware (cables/ adapters etc) to hook up the bikes, they usually don't have the Husky package (but may, if there's sufficient demand and/ or they're setup to service the TR/Nuda).

It still leaves only Paul Feeney, the former importer in Brisbane, as the single place in AUS to deal with TRs + Nudas at this point in time.
Let's hope there'll be more dealers jumping on, but it's very much up to the local bike owners to entice a shop to buy the software +bits in order to deal with those bikes.

 

[Mark_H]

I have had my dash replaced 3 times now and each time a dash is changed it need the moss system.. new going on or old going back on.. i have a spare dash "some how" that was attached to my bike and for it to go back on the moss is needed.

3 Times ?? I would say that whatever the reason this is pretty scary for those (many) of us with no means to properly MOSS the bike.
I smell 'lemon' again !!

 

[WayneC]

Programming a replacement Dash with security keys like ring sender into a machine has been a normal way of life for owners for many years now

 

[Mark_H]

Programming a replacement Dash with security keys like ring sender into a machine has been a normal way of life for owners for many years now

Normal way of life ?? Three dash changes etc is not normal for any bike.
My point is that for those of us with absolutely no access to MOSS this is obviously not possible, therefore pretty scary.

 

[glitch_oz]

Programming a replacement Dash with security keys like ring sender into a machine has been a normal way of life for owners for many years now

Not quite.
The dash is usually not part of the "security" parts involved (in fact, most chipped keys out there can be fairly easily cloned and do NOT need either a dash, a decoder nor a decoder-built-into-the-ECU to be coded simultaneously).
For the start, the TR has fairly unique chip in the keys, that thus far has been proven to be "un-clonable"...it's also got the dash as part of the security-circuit (unlike the Hondas/Suzuki/ Kwaka etc)....as well a key-decoder that's part of the ECU and not part of the ring-antenna (i.e. like the HISS and Suzuki systems).
Not much "normal" or "everyday" in this setup.
As Mark_H said....no MOSS around (OSS/ whatever) and you're dead in the water.
It's not that the dash doesn't work anymore (could be replaced with a Vapor unit or such), but the bike is finished right there and then.

 

[WayneC]

Mark, not trying to flame with my comment, 3 dash replacements is definitely not normal and on this class of machine I question having ring sender keys, I am glad my Dakar does not have them but I also know security on mine is rubbish and that for modern vehicles there is pressure from Regulators and Insurance Co's for manufacturers to implement electronic security measures on all models. For most of the modern BMW road bikes having to program in a new/replacement dash is normal as is programming in a new key. The issue of independent repairers being able to work on these systems is an issue/discussion item in the auto industry. who is able to request a security code to do programming of components and how 3rd party software implements the process are the issues

Glitch, the dash is part of the security, the key talks to the dash, the dash gives the OK signal to the BMS to tell it it is OK to start. The dash has traditionally been the security item for the BMW cars as well, the later vehicles now implement other security ECU's and they have had to encrypt the signals between keys and vehicles as there have been thefts world wide with the earlier un encrypted systems including in Oz. There are security research reports floating round the web with regard to it all

Personally I dont think having the dash as the security controller on the bikes is a good idea as it is too easily damaged in a fall, the engine ECU under the seat seems to be a better more protected item to me and it is the primary comms interface for diags/programming

Some of what I have read and been told re replacement keys etc for the Terra indicates a lack of understanding of it at the Dealer level, they were clearly unprepared for the release of the Terra/Nuda models

Long term there is no question access to dealer programming systems for Key/Dash/BMS/ABS replacement has to be sorted out between BMW/Husky. There is also more to the story re BMW dealers being able to program the ECU's/Dash/keys etc than is stated in posts on Cafe Husky, bureaucratic issues more than access to data and corporate cultures are the issues, I have no time for any of it, heads need to be bashed together to have commonsense prevail

 

[Chuffa]

Just an update on Hendo's plight. He's hoping to repair his current instrument cluster. He has a relative with a 3D printer, & hopefully the skills, to replicate the cluster casing. The aim is to get the bike going again & then decide if it can be made safe enough to use in the middle of nowhere, which is where Hendo needs it.

One potential mod he thought about was a steel mounting for the instrument cluster. This interests me too as it seems the cable connection point is vulnerable and a loose connection causes the ews error.