Is 140 too wide?

[Swampds]

I decided to jump up to a S12 140 tire on my TE450. It has some serious bite but I am wondering if I am loosing out on some wheel spin that helps the motor get up to speed quicker. I like how much bite the s12 has but it is rubbing the pipe a little.

Kelly....is there a MotoZ tire that would be similiar to the S12 that would work good in the sandy FL soil?

 

[ScottyR]

An S12 in a 140 size works great on a TE450.

The 130 is too skinny for anything bigger than a 250F IMO.

Your muffler bracket is probably bent in a bit. Use a little gentle persuasion and pull it out.

 

[Fast1]

I liked it mounted up on my TE510


soft, muddy, sandy terrain ONLY! if not you will wear it out in less than 500 miles

 

[Mike Kay]

Respectfully, i disagree. I think a 120 is perfect.
Baja racers use 120, including the XR650r's that Team Honda ran in years past.

The 120 spins out taller, allowing a deeper lug grab.

Most important is the improved bike handling in transition from side to side in the turns, and while braking, etc.

I find the 140 is even too big for my TE610. I have a 130 and will go with a 120 next time.

Another disadvantage is the added unsprung weight.

IMHO bigger is not better. Of course tire selection is always a personal choice. Nothing wrong with respectfully agreeing to disagree.

 

[ScottyR]

A 140 Michelin is the same as a 120 Dunlop or Bridgestone.

A 120 Michelin is like a 100/100 Dunlop.

 

[Swampds]

A 140 Michelin is the same as a 120 Dunlop or Bridgestone.

A 120 Michelin is like a 100/100 Dunlop.

I didn't know that. This tire has quite a footprint.

I agree with Mike when it comes to desert riding. Most of the riding is done as speed and handling would suffer with such a heavy tire. Here nflorida I have been riding tight single track hare scrambles that have the majority of the race in 1st gear with spurts of open field.

BTW....I have a desert IT front tire. I had someone mention on the hard compound but didn't really elaborate. This tire worked great in Nevada....but here in florida where it is loamy and sandy, is the hard compound or the tread pattern at that much of a disadvantage?

 

[Dieselox4]

Mike Kay
Respectfully, i disagree. I think a 120 is perfect.
Baja racers use 120, including the XR650r's that Team Honda ran in years past.

The 120 spins out taller, allowing a deeper lug grab.

Most important is the improved bike handling in transition from side to side in the turns, and while braking, etc.

I find the 140 is even too big for my TE610. I have a 130 and will go with a 120 next time.

Another disadvantage is the added unsprung weight.

IMHO bigger is not better. Of course tire selection is always a personal choice. Nothing wrong with respectfully agreeing to disagree

I agree 100%. I wrote Kelly asking about how the sizing was is the original thread about these tires. I too am worried about going to big. Your opinion is in some what verified in his answer in that he went with a 130 because it was all they had, but felt it was a little big. I can tell in my riding the difference in my cornering and traction while running a 140 to the 120/100 Maxxis IT Im running now. I would buy this tire tomorrow if i could decide on either the 120 or 130. Due primarily because they only come in a 90 sidewall. I wish they made it in a 120/100.

mike

 

[Dieselox4]

Swampds Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyR
This tire worked great in Nevada....but here in florida where it is loamy and sandy, is the hard compound or the tread pattern at that much of a disadvantage?
Today 07:42 PM

I would like to see here if Kelly could get the "Tracula I-S/T". Their website says that is the tire to have for Loom.

mike

 

[ScottyR]

BTW....I have a desert IT front tire. I had someone mention on the hard compound but didn't really elaborate. This tire worked great in Nevada....but here in florida where it is loamy and sandy, is the hard compound or the tread pattern at that much of a disadvantage?

Take that IT off and throw it away if you are riding in the sand. A Michelin MS3 or Dunlop 773 would be my choice for the sand.

 

[Swampds]

Take that IT off and throw it away if you are riding in the sand. A Michelin MS3 or Dunlop 773 would be my choice for the sand.

I will have to take a look at those. Is it the pattern or the compound on the IT that is no good for this type of environment? I can see how the hard compound would suck for the roots.

 

[Fast1]

First off there is next to NO difference in weight based on the sizes of the Michelin S12 rear tires. I would bet that the S12 140/80-18 is lighter at 12lbs than most other tires in a 120 width.

Size Style Weight Part #
120/90-18 BW 11 T68620
130/80-18 BW 12 T70985
140/80-18 BW 12 T58332
120/80-19 BW 11 T49110
130/70-19 BW 12 T43110

Second, you will float much better in deep mud and sand with a wide tire over narrow width tire and avoid grinding the rear sprocket and rotors in ruts left by small width tires.

Now for rock or hard ground the narrow width tire may be better however you will never ride a Michelin S12 on hard ground regardless of the width after 25 miles of testing. The compound and knob structure are really only suitable for soft terrain.

I don't think you can generalize tire characteristics based on width and asume they will all be the same regardless of the terrain and tire carcass, compound or knob pattern

 

[Nick Mac.]

First off there is next to NO difference in weight based the sizes of the Michelin S12 rear tires. I would bet that the S12 140/80-18 is lighter at 12lbs than most other tires in a 120 width.

Size Style Weight Part #
120/90-18 BW 11 T68620
130/80-18 BW 12 T70985
140/80-18 BW 12 T58332
120/80-19 BW 11 T49110
130/70-19 BW 12 T43110

Second, you will float much better in deep mud and sand with a wide tire over narrow width tire and avoid grinding the rear sprocket and rotors in ruts left by small width tires.

Now for rock or hard ground the narrow width tire may be better however you will never ride a Michelin S12 on hard ground regardless of the width after 25 miles of testing. The compound and knob structure are really only suitable for soft terrain.

I don't think you can generalize tire characteristics based on width and asume they will all be the same regardless of the terrain and tire carcass, compound or knob pattern

In the years I've been riding, i find the tyres cornering ability is down to hte flatness across the tread, or thte curve over the tread. The more the curve the quicker a bike can " rail" turns. The flatter Tread brings out the back it in and bang it out type turning. I like the big arsed flat ones..Makes single trail abit harder, traction is in the plenty range though with it bagged out. Different strokes folks.

 

[MOTORHEAD]

A lot of guys run the 140 S12 on the 250 2t's and 450 4T's around here. I use to run them on my YZ250 and they didn't seem to pull it down. A 130 would spin a lot more and wear faster. I wouldn't hesitate to put one on my 510.

 

[I8AKTM]

First off there is next to NO difference in weight based on the sizes of the Michelin S12 rear tires. I would bet that the S12 140/80-18 is lighter at 12lbs than most other tires in a 120 width.

Size Style Weight Part #
120/90-18 BW 11 T68620
130/80-18 BW 12 T70985
140/80-18 BW 12 T58332
120/80-19 BW 11 T49110
130/70-19 BW 12 T43110

Second, you will float much better in deep mud and sand with a wide tire over narrow width tire and avoid grinding the rear sprocket and rotors in ruts left by small width tires.

Now for rock or hard ground the narrow width tire may be better however you will never ride a Michelin S12 on hard ground regardless of the width after 25 miles of testing. The compound and knob structure are really only suitable for soft terrain.

I don't think you can generalize tire characteristics based on width and asume they will all be the same regardless of the terrain and tire carcass, compound or knob pattern

Where the heck are those pics from, if I may ask??? Open to the public?

(always looking for different options within a half day's drive from home...)


Sorry about the hijack....pics are great and couldn't help myself.

paul

 

[Fast1]

Paul,

Yes the photos are from an area you can ride anytime. In fact the first two are from my most visited playground. It has everything from some challenging single track (for the upper midwest), beat-up double track, supermoto style dirt fireroads and WOT rail grade where you can knock off 150 mile day rides. They do hold some nice racing their also. Just google "Nemadji State Forest".

The third photo is from near the Chewamagon National Forest in North Central Wiscsonsin. That photo is taken from a ~60 mile quad/bike trail called the "Dead Horse Run" which is known to be about the toughest thing out their in WI. When I rode it one day it was part of my 275 mile day ride and was filled with those mud holes for 40 miles that had hidden bolders and ruts from the big tired quads. Here are couple more of that trail. I'll PM you a link that covers some of my rides with allot more photos of both Nemadji and the Dead Horse.

and a few more of Nemadji single track

Be glad to give you a tour of either area anytime.

 

[Joe Chod]

The michelin width #'s don't jive at all with the normal standard. ther #'s are higher than others of same size

 

[Fast1]

Easiest way to check tire width is by use of a caliper. Either casing or knob width can be measured. I'll check my S12 next time I'm working on my bike and report measured width in this thread.

 

[Fast1]

here is a short video of the surprises that await you while riding the Dead Horse trail



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLB4RhcWzXU




Challenging while riding alone

 

[robertaccio]

FYI,,, this ,,again is a very personal taste and local conditions issue,,,,,and for note all the WEC guys use the eco FIM rubber 140/80 rears on the E3 and E2 bikes (that come on the TE450/510). For my use and taste I like wide rears with skinny fronts (like the WEC guys sizes) on my TXC,,,but if you ask 10 guys you get 10 answers,,,and all are good for each individual. PS I am one of a very few that like eco tires (at lower pressures 9-10 rear 10-12 front) no real help,,,,just info. R

 

[BentAero]

Interesting. FWIW, I looked over Scott Summers TXC510 at both the Renfro Valley ride in May, and the Yadkin Valley GNCC race this past summer, and both times he had 110 Pirelli's mounted on his bike...