Husqvarna/Husaberg one brand again?

[Norman Foley]

Will the new owners of Husqvarna, merge Husaberg into it and make one brand? Husqvarna Motorcycles are 110 years old this year, Husaberg is 25 years. Husqvarna builds 10,000+ motorcycles a year and Husaberg builds 5000 a year. Pierer AG wants to double Husky numbers in the next few years, can Husaberg numbers grow that much? Husaberg is manufacturered and designed at the KTM plant in Matinghofen Austria and Motorsports management remains in Sweden. Will Husky production remain in Italy (doubtful) and SP has already stated in interviews that Husky engine developement is already taking place in Matinghofen. It seems Husaberg may go away and have one brand of Swedish origin again... Husqvarna.

Your thoughts with minimal KTM bashing please....

 

[Boogie]

Although it is likely and almost logical for the merge to happen, I don't think it will. SP has quoted the VW platform sharing strategy many times and seems to aspire to it. For SP's platform sharing strategy to work the companies need to remain separate.

Here's a quote from autoblog on the Volkswagen company:
---
All of VW's brands (VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Bentley, Lamborghini, Ducati, Porsche, Bugatti, MAN, Scania, and VW Commercial) are treated as stand-alone companies. They have their own boards of directors, their own profit & loss statements, and their own annual reports. They even have their own separate design, engineering and manufacturing facilities. Yes, they do share some platforms and powertrains and purchasing, but other than that they're on their own.
---
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/06/how-volkswagen-is-run-like-no-other-car-company/

Also, FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_platforms

 

[ajaxauto]

I heard the new boss bought out Husky so he could then merg it with Husaberg JUST so Norman could come back to his HUSKY ROOTS See you could not stay away welcome back Mr Norman back

 

[oregonsage]

Since I pretty much missed the pre-BMW Italian years, but am quite familiar with the days of Swedish dominance I get a little twinge when someone here talks about Italian Husqvarna roots.....

I also think Norm is right, at least in the North America and European markets. In my neighborhood Husabergs are rare as hens teeth and old KTM/Husaberg dealers have been left holding stock of blue KTMs that arent easy to sell, since there are an overabundance of KTM dealers and lots of used Orange iron available.

In a worldwide market there may be some use for an 'extra' brand like Husaberg, but I think it is one too many in the markets where KTM/Husqvarna already play. As for 'origination' point, this may become very blurry. Think IKEA with bikes. Engineering and headquarters in Sweden or Italy to maintain the familiarity that NA/European customers like, while unidentifiable parts coming from all over the globe and being assembled at multiple location (say Mexico for NA market ala VW, Fiat, etc.) While ownership of Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover have gone to India, China etc the cars are still sold via England and Sweden ...

One other note, my Mercedes cross references several suspension components with recent Jeep Grand Cherokees and this is several years after the ill fated Chrysler MB alliance. There will be corporate parts bins to share but that doesnt mean the whole engine will interchange, it may just be the gear or clutch or pistons....etc. I expect frames and plastic to be different so the visible identity is obvious and some significant feature difference...ala CTS, or KTM stops trying to sell Dualsport models or ???

 

[boisedave]

Great topic!!

I have read just about everything I can on this and the new boss has made more than one comment about the closeness of Husaberg/Husky. I think you will see an official announcement in the not so distant future merging the brands. I think this makes sense from a business perspective. Husaberg dealers do not typically sell KTMs. Maybe some do, but not all. I know of several dealers who sell Husabergs but not KTMs. By Pushing Husky's into Husaberg dealership, you've expanded Husky's dealer base. Old Husky dealers get Huskys -- Old Husa dealers get Huskys = More Huskys. Husky gets the PR -- back to its roots PR push and Husky now has a bigger and mere established dealer base.

For me -- I think I would be surprised if there was NO merger. I just think it makes sense. Also, it clears up the Husaberg brand identity issue KTM I think is having. Nobody here really knew what KTM wanted Husaberg to be -- premium or discount, test bed or older tried and true stuff? I think that is because KTM didn't really know. If Husa is gone -- KTM doesn't have to worry about what the identity is. For Husky, there already is an identity [presumably] and SP has already said its off-road and Supermoto, including MX. Cleverly, if SP merges Husky with Husa and now Husky "sells" the 5000 models which were traditionally Husaberg -- then he has "increased" Husky sales 50%. I just don't see any disadvantage to it at this point.

The real interesting question will be how does SP follow the VW model and still differentiate between KTM and Husky? How this pans out I think is the real question in everyone's mind. I think you will see some commonality among certain things. WP suspension components, brakes, etc.. This makes sense to me -- can't see using KYB or Sachs when KTM already owns WP. It makes WP stronger and makes Husky's less expensive. No brainer. Wheels, carbs, etc.. All makes sense to me. That leaves 2 components [not including plastics and seats and stuff] -- frames and engines. I just don't know how this will shake out. But I DO NOT think you will see a 2014 Husky line which is identical with a 2013 Husaberg line. I have a hunch that there really will be a differentiation between the two brands -- I just don't know how much it will be. It would be cheaper to just rebadge 1 bike -- but that has limited potential. I think to challenge the global market -- both bikes need to be unique and impressive. Does that mean KTM engines in Husky frames??? IDK -- but I don't think its that easy. I actually think you will see different frames and slightly different engines. KTM has already displayed a willingness to manufacture lots of different engines -- what would a few more do? The critical issue is they already have the infrastructure to do it -- they own engineering and production facilities. Is it cheaper to just make one of each -- sure, but then you wouldn't have the differentiation that SP is hoping for in an attempt to take market share. I mean different cases, but you could use the same clutch and transmission gears. There are lots of ways to keep the "uniqueness" of Husky but capitalize on efficiencies.

I think about it the way -- KTM's market share has its own seperate trajectory. Does well in off-road and is increasing in MX. KTM will continue to do what it can to get people to buy KTMs and sell more of them. KTMs ability to sell more bikes is limited though -- sure they will try and do more, but KTMs growth has leveled off a bit [emerging markets notwithstanding]. In order to sell more bikes for the Company -- SP needs to offer something KTM doesn't in attempt to get Jap buyers to consider Husky [if they won't consider KTM]. To grow the entire company [KTM+Husky] you have to sell two different bikes. I think this means something a bit unique from Husky -- but not weird. BMW proved weird doesn't sell. Additionally, while Husa proved you can sell rebadged Husabergs -- the world wasn't set on fire by them. I bet most people who bought a Husa would be inclined to by a KTM if the dealers were different. I know people who couldn't stand the old KTM dealer and bought different bikes because they wouldn't go into that shop. Both Husa and Husky prove to me that to sell bikes you need to be in the mainstream, to sell more than KTM -- you need to be different than KTM [otherwise you would just buy one].

What I think you'll get is that Husky will take a slightly different approach to each bike. Different bore and strokes, different engine character -- 2 cams vs. one cam. Different geometry, etc.. Whatever... How is Kawi different than KTM or Suzi, etc.. If you get down to it -- its not much. The bikes are nearly identical -- but there is always a winner and always a loser. I think you will see a unique Husky ON PAR with the big 5 -- but altogether different. Its the only way SP can grow both brands. I actually think you might see Husky go in too drastic a direction -- I.e. aluminum frames, or high end suspension stuff to try and eliminate the staleness of the brand.

So -- I actually expect to see different bikes sharing components. With Husky being equivalent. I also am not afraid that Husky will be a budget brand. Budget bikes don't really sell all that well - budget models might. You may see a Husky equivalent to the CRF230 but you won't see every Husky with an outdated engine and cheap suspension selling cheaper [i.e the WR25/300 -- if that philosophy worked -- you'd be selling a million of these].

Sorry -- I ramble. I just think this is going to kick ass for Husky. Problem is I think it will take another couple years and I hate waiting.

 

[robertaccio]

meantime I'll keep riding the crap out of my Italian/German designed and built TXC310R and trying my best to roost all the other machines I come into contact with.

 

[water racer]

I am not so sure about the merger. They have already been marketing Husaberg as "pure enduro". I think they may take the three brands and spin them differently.
I am leaning towards Husqvarna being moto/super moto. Anybodies guess though.
Like robertaccio, I will keep riding my Italian stallions.

 

[wallybean]

We will see all current Husky models pushed out the doors asap for the next couple of months and then expect to see 90% of the line available in late summer/fall as re-badged Husabergs. Probably only a small chance that "ANY" current Husky engines/models make it to 2014. I can't wait to be proven wrong but expect that will be the direction that SP takes the line. For him to not do that would mean that he is going to adopt a platform/motor/model from the Husky line and convert the other two brands to that.....it doesn't make monetary sense. Everything that SP has said and he has been consistant is that all brands will share platforms/engines/components with individualization of the brands through execution of the details. None of this has anything to do with Husqvarna/Bajaj in India as that part of the company will not impact the european/North American models that will also sell as high end competition models world wide. This is our reality get busy adjusting or get busy buying something else when you are in the market.

All distributer services in the US will be run through KTM within 60 to 90 days. All current Husky USA personnel have 60 days left with possibly another 30 days after that. Any of the current personnel that want to stay on will be forced to take significant cuts in salary/benefits. This includes your local regional representatives . It is easy to come in and just starve the old staff out rather than be seen as an un-proffesional scorched earth take over. Unfortunately that is what is happening as that is pretty standard in change of ownerships in any business. So I expect to see disruptions in service as all Husky relations change completely in the next 60-90 days.

What does this mean? If you are planning on doing any extensive rebuild work using parts that are not regularly stocked by your dealer expect some delays in the future as the transition is worked out. If you are a regular user of Husky parts and rely on their availability then you need to stock up in the very short term. That is what I am going to do. I am not being negative, this is just the reality of the situation. Is there a benefit in the short term? Expect SP to blow out all current Husky models over the short term to get rid of stock in preperation for conversion to the family. If there is a current model that you covet or would like to have in the future then those models could be available at very inexpensive rates. Buy the crate and assemble when ready. I doubt that there will be a shortage of parts as where there is a market someone will fill it. At the point that SP no longer provides parts for the old Husky line most everything will be available for a price from the aftermarket.

Thank God I am old and probably won't live to see the parts for my loved 165 not be available anymore. I actually expect that current models we love will be vastly improved on by future tech and execution from all manufactures. They have to or they will become DODO birds too. There is some opinion in my writing but mostly what I am posting is reality. It is really counter productive to rail against the coming sunrise, best to find the best way to take advantage of the time you have left.

 

[Kevin_TE250]

We will see all current Husky models pushed out the doors asap for the next couple of months and then expect to see 90% of the line available in late summer/fall as re-badged Husabergs. Probably only a small chance that "ANY" current Husky engines/models make it to 2014. I can't wait to be proven wrong but expect that will be the direction that SP takes the line. For him to not do that would mean that he is going to adopt a platform/motor/model from the Husky line and convert the other two brands to that.....it doesn't make monetary sense. Everything that SP has said and he has been consistant is that all brands will share platforms/engines/components with individualization of the brands through execution of the details. None of this has anything to do with Husqvarna/Bajaj in India as that part of the company will not impact the european/North American models that will also sell as high end competition models world wide. This is our reality get busy adjusting or get busy buying something else when you are in the market.

All distributer services in the US will be run through KTM within 60 to 90 days. All current Husky USA personnel have 60 days left with possibly another 30 days after that. Any of the current personnel that want to stay on will be forced to take significant cuts in salary/benefits. This includes your local regional representatives . It is easy to come in and just starve the old staff out rather than be seen as an un-proffesional scorched earth take over. Unfortunately that is what is happening as that is pretty standard in change of ownerships in any business. So I expect to see disruptions in service as all Husky relations change completely in the next 60-90 days.

What does this mean? If you are planning on doing any extensive rebuild work using parts that are not regularly stocked by your dealer expect some delays in the future as the transition is worked out. If you are a regular user of Husky parts and rely on their availability then you need to stock up in the very short term. That is what I am going to do. I am not being negative, this is just the reality of the situation. Is there a benefit in the short term? Expect SP to blow out all current Husky models over the short term to get rid of stock in preperation for conversion to the family. If there is a current model that you covet or would like to have in the future then those models could be available at very inexpensive rates. Buy the crate and assemble when ready. I doubt that there will be a shortage of parts as where there is a market someone will fill it. At the point that SP no longer provides parts for the old Husky line most everything will be available for a price from the aftermarket.

Thank God I am old and probably won't live to see the parts for my loved 165 not be available anymore. I actually expect that current models we love will be vastly improved on by future tech and execution from all manufactures. They have to or they will become DODO birds too. There is some opinion in my writing but mostly what I am posting is reality. It is really counter productive to rail against the coming sunrise, best to find the best way to take advantage of the time you have left.

Your scaring me getting all philosophical.....

 

[Norman Foley]

The difficult truth is.... KTM wouldn't keep the 70 degree Husaberg 4 stroke in production because of costs and it won 2 '12. EWC Class Championships, E2 Class and Manufacturer's Trophy at '12 ISDE. What's the chance they'll keep Husky's engines in production?

 

[chuckc4]

I am not sure the Husaberg brand would benefit from being combined with Husqvarna. I don't intend to ruffle any feathers here but it seems to me KTM and Husaberg have far better brand recognition than Husqvarna. There are tons of threads on this site which talk about people asking a Husqvarna owner about their bikes like it is a new brand when they are at a track, riding area, etc.... Kind of pathetic when you think of Husqarna's history. No-one who rides a motorcycle, doesn't know what a KTM is, unless they were abducted by aliens and brainwashed. Now, Husaberg doesnt have the kind of recognition KTM has either, but seriously, put a 250 2stroke Husky next to a 250 2stroke Husaberg and which bike would you want to ride?

Husaberg is upmarket from KTM. Higher price point, lower volume, positioned as a well engineered race bike. Heck, I doubt you would find anyone who doesn't want one, if they know about the brand. And I don't think this is attributed to marketing, I think it is attributed to having something very good that is different.

KTM has worked very hard to gain their position in the market place. They are the fifth of the big five, which was the big four before KTM made room for themselves. Slightly more expensive than the the Asian brands, they are positioned as ready to race. Regardless of if another brand said that first, KTM now owns it, and it is brilliant bit of marketing.

Out of the three brands we are currently concerned with, Husqarna seems to be caught in an identity crisis, and is the brand most likely to benefit from a makeover.

Of course, this is also one Americans viewpoint. I think we have a very skewed, self centered view of things here. What makes sense to me probably doesn't make sense worldwide, even though it is very American to think it does, or should.

Norm, may I please ride your Husaberg this summer????????

 

[Norman Foley]

I am not sure the Husaberg brand would benefit from being combined with Husqvarna. I don't intend to ruffle any feathers here but it seems to me KTM and Husaberg have far better brand recognition than Husqvarna. There are tons of threads on this site which talk about people asking a Husqvarna owner about their bikes like it is a new brand when they are at a track, riding area, etc.... Kind of pathetic when you think of Husqarna's history. No-one who rides a motorcycle, doesn't know what a KTM is, unless they were abducted by aliens and brainwashed. Now, Husaberg doesnt have the kind of recognition KTM has either, but seriously, put a 250 2stroke Husky next to a 250 2stroke Husaberg and which bike would you want to ride?

Husaberg is upmarket from KTM. Higher price point, lower volume, positioned as a well engineered race bike. Heck, I doubt you would find anyone who doesn't want one, if they know about the brand. And I don't think this is attributed to marketing, I think it is attributed to having something very good that is different.

KTM has worked very hard to gain their position in the market place. They are the fifth of the big five, which was the big four before KTM made room for themselves. Slightly more expensive than the the Asian brands, they are positioned as ready to race. Regardless of if another brand said that first, KTM now owns it, and it is brilliant bit of marketing.

Out of the three brands we are currently concerned with, Husqarna seems to be caught in an identity crisis, and is the brand most likely to benefit from a makeover.

Of course, this is also one Americans viewpoint. I think we have a very skewed, self centered view of things here. What makes sense to me probably doesn't make sense worldwide, even though it is very American to think it does, or should.

Norm, may I please ride your Husaberg this summer????????

Anytime for a test ride.

 

[ray_ray]

We will see all current Husky models pushed out the doors asap for the next couple of months and then expect to see 90% of the line available in late summer/fall as re-badged Husabergs.

This all makes sense ... Except for the rumored 450 xlite machine ... Why race one if you are not gonna sell it ...

The bergs are very good machines ... These guys will probably die quietly and get on a Husky down the line somewhere ... And since all the manufacturing for bergs is already in place for SP, working over there is probably the easiest(& least expensive) route to take at this time ...

SP sort of combining these 2 camps and keeping them apart from the pumkin-patch-macdaddy, might just work ...

--

I was hoping to see what was in line next by the outgoing owners or maybe ~50% of it ... I still think these model bikes have more potential and I can see the business side of all this also ...Just judging by SP comments about the current Husky line of bikes that keep kicking his pimkins around in many enduro events as we speak, he may just wanna see them die off and stop the orange bleeding at the hands of the current Husqvarna brand bikes ... meo is next on the hit list to get roost ...

Not too worried about parts either ... bearings are easy enough to get and 3rd parties should make pistons and rings ... Many other things on the bikes are 3rd party anyway ... My 08 TXC250 just doesn't need many parts and I hope the 010 TC250s are the same way ... The current bikes are OK with me ... And so is the future of Husqvarna ...

 

[ohmygewd]

Dunno...Husaberg did start off as a bunch of ex-Husqvarna AB staff who got pissed off when Cagiva bought out Husqvarna and took everything to Italy?
Since KTM owns Husaberg and Pierer AB owns Husqvarna, it does make sense to merge both companies back as one?

Agree with Norman...put the 70 degree in the TE 310 or 450, great motor.

 

[Boogie]

Perhaps these are a few possibilities...

1. Development and manufacture of all three companies in Austria for dirt oriented bikes.
- Husaberg and Husqvarna (plastics) design team in Sweden. They would need to pitch at different markets, Husa for enduro, Husky for moto supermoto etc.
2. Development and manufacture of all three companies in Austria for dirt oriented bikes.
- Husaberg (plastics) design team in Sweden.
- Husqvarna (plastics) design team in Italy. Possibly even assembly to remain in Italy.

My money is on number 2... it's more inline with the VW platform sharing strategy. It would also be the easiest way to keep the "look" of the bikes separate.

 

[Connor]

meantime I'll keep riding the crap out of my Italian/German designed and built TXC310R and trying my best to roost all the other machines I come into contact with.

Best idea on here so far, hands down

 

[Huskynoobee]

Husqberg, Husavarna, whatever happens, they will both be proudly sporting the most tremendous Indian Bajaj parts that your devalued dollars can buy!

 

[fletchman45]

Without reading anyone's answer. My take with minimal KTM bashing. If I were to buy my rival brand. Let's say I own SKIDOO and they are built in Canada and I buy Artic Cat and they are built in Minnesota. More then likely after the transition period I would probably shut the Minnesota factory down and move things to canada. And to save even more money I would put Artic Cat decals on my own Skidoo's. Why? Because in my head I have a superior product. Now lets take it a step farther. In and effort to make a point I may not even care much about old generation true Artic Cats since I never liked them anyways and in a bold move I may even make parts very very scarce for those prior true Artic Cats. And figure out a way to blame it on them anyways. Somehow these machines have to be different and I mean more then plastic. whether it is Husqvarna and husaberg sharing similar components. If they were to all be clones of each other then really would a true Husky guy by a Husky? Would a true KTM guy buy a cloned Husqvarna just to be different? I do not think so. How about Husaberg and Husqvarna combined and released with similer brakes, wheels, tires. But their own suspension (NOT WP) and a new school Italian 2-stroke engine!) Then KTM could be separated from the two. Or even WP suspension with a ZOKE Ohlins low priced option on the Berg/Husky! If the engine is KTM with a Husky sidecover it ruins the bike. The idea of the berg/Husky with italian engines but other similar components is not a bad idea. Then a Husky/berg dealer could be just that. yes share brakes, wheels, and basic components. But my god if all 3 bikes have the same wheelbase rake and trail. YUCK!!! Let's see where it all goes.

 

[fletchman45]

meantime I'll keep riding the crap out of my Italian/German designed and built TXC310R and trying my best to roost all the other machines I come into contact with.

NOW THAT IS WHAT I"M TALKING ABOUT****************************************!

 

[XLEnduroMan]

I think he/SP would be foolish to kill off the winning Husqvarna x-lite's and the Husqvarna 2t 125. Maybe he will build up new models off these two tried and true platforms.