All 2st Fuel/oilmix for street use?

[Johnnymannen]

My question is: How much oil is good to use for street use? Why i have this question is because i´m thinking that when you drive on the streets you mainly use very little throttle. Therefore the engine will have a very small amount of lubrication. In the woods or ice for example you are using the throttle much more and then lubricate the engine much better. So, what,s your theory about this? I´m intrested of your opinions on this and how the thoughts go! I will use my WR 300 in the summer with Super Motard wheels, so that´s one reason for asking!

Johnny

 

[ray_ray]

Interesting question and I would have never thought this to be an issue but this article addresses this question...It was posted in another thread on this site.. http://www.cafehusky.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7597

Opinions? LOL...Mine is to ride Huskies only These things we call engines are metal. No brains, no opinions, no feelings. Physics only matters here.

It is a very long article on the future of 2-strokes and explains alot of the technical stuff on 2-strokes and how they work and how the JAPs have had very good data on how to make 2-strokes really roar but have chosen not to use it. Be glad they did not patent these ideas or they could stop any company from using them in the future and really kill off these designs for the future...

The paragraph below is not too long so I posted it. You need to connect to the link below and read the 1st June 2009 paragraph also. It follows the 23 May paragraph. It outlines how inefficient it is to mix the oil and gas as we have been trained to do.

Pay attention to the dates...Most of this info was known before most on this site were even born and yet never brought to showroom floors for bikes. It did make it to snowmobiles to some degree

http://www.dirt-bike-tips-and-pics.com/future-of-two-strokes.html

23rd May 2009:
This is a good time to get into a subject that has been the source of much confusion: Lubrication. Many riders seem to think that this is 'the problem'. Oil must be mixed with the gas, it goes through combustion and out the exhaust, and this is 'the problem'. I will begin the refutation with a little story.

Not long ago, a friend of mine who is into airplanes as well as motocross, told me that Rotax two-stroke aircraft engines were seizing pistons. He explained that they would take off and climb to altitude no problem. At some point they would idle the engine and glide to a lower level. This might take two or three minutes. Then they would open the throttle, to increase speed or gain altitude, and that's when it would stick. He asked me, "Why?"

I took out a carburetor pilot jet. Most riders know that these control the amount of fuel the engine gets at idle and small throttle openings. Holding the jet at eye level I said, "Try to imagine that 1/50th of the liquid that passes through that tiny hole is oil. Then imagine that most of that oil, maybe 80%, goes through the engine and out the exhaust without ever coming in contact with any of the parts that desperately need lubrication." He looked at me, "No oil!"

 

[Johnnymannen]

Interesting question and I would have never thought this to be an issue but this article addresses this question...It was posted in another thread on this site.. http://www.cafehusky.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7597

Opinions? LOL...Mine is to ride Huskies only These things we call engines are metal. No brains, no opinions, no feelings. Physics only matters here.

It is a very long article on the future of 2-strokes and explains alot of the technical stuff on 2-strokes and how they work and how the JAPs have had very good data on how to make 2-strokes really roar but have chosen not to use it. Be glad they did not patent these ideas or they could stop any company from using them in the future and really kill off these designs for the future...

The paragraph below is not too long so I posted it. You need to connect to the link below and read the 1st June 2009 paragraph also. It follows the 23 May paragraph. It outlines how inefficient it is to mix the oil and gas as we have been trained to do.

Pay attention to the dates...Most of this info was known before most on this site were even born and yet never brought to showroom floors for bikes. It did make it to snowmobiles to some degree

http://www.dirt-bike-tips-and-pics.com/future-of-two-strokes.html

23rd May 2009:
This is a good time to get into a subject that has been the source of much confusion: Lubrication. Many riders seem to think that this is 'the problem'. Oil must be mixed with the gas, it goes through combustion and out the exhaust, and this is 'the problem'. I will begin the refutation with a little story.

Not long ago, a friend of mine who is into airplanes as well as motocross, told me that Rotax two-stroke aircraft engines were seizing pistons. He explained that they would take off and climb to altitude no problem. At some point they would idle the engine and glide to a lower level. This might take two or three minutes. Then they would open the throttle, to increase speed or gain altitude, and that's when it would stick. He asked me, "Why?"

I took out a carburetor pilot jet. Most riders know that these control the amount of fuel the engine gets at idle and small throttle openings. Holding the jet at eye level I said, "Try to imagine that 1/50th of the liquid that passes through that tiny hole is oil. Then imagine that most of that oil, maybe 80%, goes through the engine and out the exhaust without ever coming in contact with any of the parts that desperately need lubrication." He looked at me, "No oil!"

Thank you Ray Ray! Intresting info!

Johnny

 

[ray_ray]

Its alot of reading but worth it if you like educating UR on topics without going to college...

The oiling of these bikes was interesting...Thirty years ago when this was tested, not too big a deal to waste so much oil, but now we pay $~30 or so for a gallon of oil from lots of places...And lots of it is just wasted out the exhaust and serves no real value. Plus, this guy makes it sound like we are not oiling the machines very efficiently either..

With all the new items that have been added to bike over the years, why have we not seen the oil pump come back? If it saves as much as described here, it will pay for it self quickly over time...And no easy out on the additional weight as everything on this new fangled rigs has added weight over the years...

But this is 2-stroke thing and the JAP companies seem bent on the 4st machines so why improve a 2st It would take someone like Husky to consider this...I'm going to try and read some stuff on the FI 2-strokes and see it they use pumps...

 

[rasputin]

I will use my WR 300 in the summer with Super Motard wheels

you'll have to offset the rim to the left side by 10mm, bytheway. the fork leg distance of the enduro fork is different from the motard fork. in order to fit a complete motard front wheel (with big brake disc), you have to "improvise" with the hub shims and brake caliper attachment, or use motard triple clamps. with the enduro triple clamps, the 120mm tyre will touch the fork legs a little, but this will "run in" after a few days.

r

 

[Johnnymannen]

you'll have to offset the rim to the left side by 10mm, bytheway. the fork leg distance of the enduro fork is different from the motard fork. in order to fit a complete motard front wheel (with big brake disc), you have to "improvise" with the hub shims and brake caliper attachment, or use motard triple clamps. with the enduro triple clamps, the 120mm tyre will touch the fork legs a little, but this will "run in" after a few days.

r

Ok, thanks for the info! I will probably buy a set of wheels here in Sweden that you have to use your own hub shims to make it fit. It´s a universal kit. Good price though. I just have to pay about 600 dollars for a complete set of wheels with tyres, bearings, brake discs and bolts. I think it´s ok for my driving. My plan is not to race motard with the bike, it´s just for the street, so i will keep my standard brakes too, if there isn´t a cheap way to move the caliper out. Then i can buy a bigger disc. The front tyre of the motard set i will buy use a 110/70x17 tyre at the front and 130/70x17 at the rear, so i guess that will work ok.

 

[rasputin]

if you don't need your "ice wheels" and the motard wheels at the same time (i am pretty sure you don't), you can just buy new rims, spokes, tyres and tubes, and change these parts onto the old hubs. the enduro brakes are quite ok if you don't plan to seriously race...

i am not sure if 110 and 130 tyres are appropriate for the kind of power a wr300 has. i rode 120 and 150 tyres on a 144cc-kitted wr125 (on the road and the track) and thought that even for that power the tyres were quite appropriate.

but of course, with the slim tyres, you could take "understatement" to a new level. people always think "moped" when they see a two-stroke on the road, and slim tyres would add to that appearance. but until 100 kph a wr300 can keep up with quite many motorcycles, this can be quite embarassing for some motorcycle drivers (i especially remember a ducati monster and a kawasaki er-6n driver)...

r

 

[pvduke]

My question is: How much oil is good to use for street use? Why i have this question is because i´m thinking that Therefore the engine will have a very small amount of lubrication. In the woods or ice for example you are using the throttle much more and then lubricate the engine much better. So, what,s your theory about this? I´m intrested of your opinions on this and how the thoughts go! I will use my WR 300 in the summer with Super Motard wheels, so that´s one reason for asking!

Johnny

W/o over thinking the whole thing....

The fuel actually does a pretty good job of lubricating and cooling things, to a point. Did an even better job of it when it was LEADED.

You mix will depend on the oil. Different oils use different ratios.

Your sustained RPM will be greater on the asphalt.
Your air flow will also increase.
Your load per given RPM will be different.
Your jetting will need to be adjusted for these factors.
Check yer plug at several throttle openings.

when you drive on the streets you mainly use very little throttle.

Hmmmm....a WR300... with motard tires? Very little throttle? Yer kidding, right?

I'd be in jail within 15 mins.

 

[BadMotoWeazal]

I motarded an old WR 250 back in 03. I increased the oil in the mixture at first, because I'd rather foul plugs that burn the piston. After some trial & error I had the bike re-jetted for street use. Then used 50:1 just as I did in the woods.

 

[Johnnymannen]

W/o over thinking the whole thing....

The fuel actually does a pretty good job of lubricating and cooling things, to a point. Did an even better job of it when it was LEADED.

You mix will depend on the oil. Different oils use different ratios.

Your sustained RPM will be greater on the asphalt.
Your air flow will also increase.
Your load per given RPM will be different.
Your jetting will need to be adjusted for these factors.
Check yer plug at several throttle openings.



Hmmmm....a WR300... with motard tires? Very little throttle? Yer kidding, right?

I'd be in jail within 15 mins.

I mean that i will use vey little throttle BETWEEN the WOT runs of course! Thanks for the input! I guess i have to run slightly leaner jetting on the street because of less load compared to the woods. Right?

 

[pvduke]

Never start leaner.

Start as is then check, check check!

And kindly control yourself on that Holligan machine, I know I couldn't.

 

[Johnnymannen]

Yes, i know not to start lean. I really like the carachter of the engine! Kept up on the straights with a Husaberg 570 this weekend when we were iceracing! His face lokked, and then he, and when he had tried it heand i just !

 

[pvduke]

That 300 2T motor is just awesome!

I'd love to have one set up for Desert/GP stuff.

Hmmm....one left at my dealer. I wish could afford it!

 

[Johnnymannen]

Buy it! Buy it!

 

[pvduke]

You are killing me here!

 

[Johnnymannen]

You are killing me here!

Come on! You only live once! It´s a fantastic bike! I have mine in the livingroom! Beautyful furniture!

 

[pvduke]

Ok now yer just being mean *fingers in my ears saying LALALALALALALA!*

I would if I could man...believe me. That motor is Jack-the-Ripper fast.

 

[HuskyDude]

Come on! You only live once! It´s a fantastic bike! I have mine in the livingroom! Beautyful furniture!

That deserves a picture don't you think?

 

[Johnnymannen]

That deserves a picture don't you think?

Here´s one from the ice!

 

[Johnnymannen]

Here´s one from the ice!

Another one and a Pumpkin behind as usual!