FLAMEOUT and the '08 EFI

[MOTORHEAD]

Has anybody got the flameout issues totally fixed on their '08 TE?

I'm still having some problems with my bike shuting down in the worst possible places. Seems like I try to give my bike a little throttle in tight sections and it just dies. Like trying to go over a large log or something.

I've tried a number of setting with the POWERCOMMANDER and the throttle body screw, but I can't seem to get it to go away. Even with a REKLUSE clutch it's still a problem.

Seems worse when I'm really going hard or the bike is getting hot.

Anybody figured anything out?

 

[seymore]

I use to have similar problems. I think it happened more after a period of closed throttle followed by a twist of throttle. And as you said, it dies during a critical need of power, often leaving you dead in the middle of a obstacle!

I found this has mostly gone away after adjusting my FB1 setting to 86 with the PU kit installed. I found that with FB1 set at 100, it was running way too rich ~11.5:1. I had installed a wideband O2 sensor with a data logging function and did some test riding to determine that FB1 set at 86 gives "MY" TE450 a AFR of 13.5:1. I think there my be some variation from bike to bike due to fuel pressure or injector differences.

Currently the bike is running very good and has about 1200 miles on it. I just road 250 miles of tight-steep single track and got 35mpg. I also road 86 miles of wide open dirt road aggressively and got 53mpg. I can easily lift the front wheel with a twist of the throttle while riding trails.

I have a Power Commander that I haven't installed yet because of time and the fact the bike runs very good and has good mpg. I do think I could make some improvement with the PC, but not as much gain as I got by setting FB1 to give a AFR of 13.5:1.

Before I adjusted the FB1 setting which effectively raises or lowers the ECU fuel curve when running with the O2 sensor bypass, I always had a thick build-up of black carbon on the O2 sensor brass plug. Since the adjustment there is very little blackness and certainly not a thick deposit.

Do you know what you FB1 setting is?
Where did you get the PC map from?

If your O2 sensor plug has thick carbon build-up you may want to experiment with making a new PC maps that lowers all cell (-xx%). Clean the O2 brass plug, try a map with all cells set to -5%, go ride around while accessing throttle response and then look at the brass O2 plug again. Continue decreasing -10, -15, -20 until you notice a good power response, then you can adjust +,-1% until your happy. From there you can make regional tps/rpm adjust to fix problem zones. You may also want to look at the spark plug and clean or replace it if dark or black, but it seems this the plug that sometime to indicate the if it too rich or lean.

I would be much easier if you have access to a dyno or WB O2 logger.

Good luck!

 

[fitness2go]

This is the same issue I've been talking about since I got my bike...exactly! I'm waiting for the '09 mapping and crossing my fingers.

David

 

[rawperformance]

I have been dealing with the same problem on my 08/TC450. Attached is a short video of a flame out in which you can still hear the motor turning over and no go.

http://vholdr.com/video/barnhartvale-hill-climb

It does this on hills, logs, rocks and roots. Predictably! Grrrrr! I am starting to think that it may be in the auto decomp mech at low RPM. JD jetting kit, Recluse and multiple carb and valve checks/settings lead to nothing. We have also dicussed this on TT all with great ideas but no repair.

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=658405&highlight=

Thanks guys if you can figure this out because I think this will make alot of Huskey riders much happier.

 

[Coffee]

I have been dealing with the same problem on my 08/TC450. Attached is a short video of a flame out in which you can still hear the motor turning over and no go.

http://vholdr.com/video/barnhartvale-hill-climb

That is an incredibly well done web site


Did you back off on the throttle in that video and then if flamed out or constant throttle?

 

[gandalf]

I haven't had any of those issues(7 months/740 miles). Ferracci did adjust the mapping though before they'd even give me the bike. It seemed to crap out like that a bit with the stock pipe, but since I've put on the arrow at about 550 miles it's been absolutely great!

 

[MOTORHEAD]

seymor- My bike was very lean to start with and it was even worse. I could barely keep in running. I added the PC and increased the fuel by about 20% up to 6000RPM and that helped a great deal. I didn't get any stalls until I got into race conditions.

I have been playing with the map and decreased the fuel which has the bike a little more responsive, but it seems like the stall is worse.

If I did what you are suggesting wouldn't I be taking out even more fuel? I'd think it would be even worse?

I don't know what my FB1 setting is. I'm 250 miles from a dealer, that's why I added the PC, so I can tune the FI myself.

I started with a FBF map then a "zero" map and then my own.

I'm wondering if a large increase in fuel at "0" throttle opening would help?

rawperformance- Since you bike has a carb and no FI, it makes me wonder if there is an igniton map issue.

fitness2go- I know you've had the same problem, I've seen your post also.

Whatever it is, there is something just not right with these bikes. They even mentioned it in the DIRTBIKE test of the new '09's. So don't expect it to go away soon.

 

[Mike Kay]

Same problem on my '08 TE 610. I agree it gets worse when its hot.
My bike is running lean, and i love the fuel economy, but when i am on the gas, sure enough it fails me at the wrong moment.

Idle speed might cure it, although it would probably be masking an issue at '0' as mentioned. I am gonna play with air filter oil, and the screen, as well.

1000 miles on the bike.

 

[fitness2go]

I'm going to go from stock 13/47 to 13/50 to see if that helps any.

 

[Coffee]

1000 miles on the bike.

You just got that thing!

 

[seymore]

rawperformance- The video is great, but I'm confused by the lack of profanity after the bike dies. You must be a professional with that level of restraint or did you just edit that out!

This is not the same type of shutdown I use to experience. Mine was more like a "hiccup" or "cough" and die.

From the sound on the video the engine slowed before stopping. Did you back off the throttle or did the power just fade away before stopping? Sure sounds like what you would expect if you lost spark. I would expect to hear a noticeable sound in exhaust if the the exhaust valve was held open.

Can you get the exact effect by holding the kill switch or the compression release? If so, that might help identify the system that is causing the problem. If it's ignition you could check for any pinched or loose wires.

 

[rawperformance]

seymore very little comes from me when I ride. It is almost Zen like. Ok enough with the BS there is no pro here. I did back out of the throttle a bit to get the front tire back to its job of steering that is why the engine slowed. I can catch it when crossing a log and pulling the clutch, sounds the same at about 1/4 throttle. If I don't catch it it coughs and dies. Pushing the kill switch does not sound the same and I will have to try the decomp lever another day.

Does your bike resist starting after it dies? Mine I have to pull the manual lever to clear it out for a couple of kicks in order to get it started again. Thought it may be to high a float level so I lowered it 2.5 mm. You don't have a float so that's not it. I'm stumped!

 

[rawperformance]

Just a thought! Does anyone know if the range selector switch is adjustable? Is it needed? Would a good hit in second or first gear flip the ignition map at low RPM? Maybe the bike electrically goes neutral.

Stumped and stretching here.

 

[MOTORHEAD]

I've ran my idle at about 2100rpm, I've got 13/49 gears, the back fire screen is out with the stock filter and 2oz. of NO-TOIL, I'm running a K&N, I removed the valve cover vent from the air boot and plugged the boot hole and have a filter on the vent. I've also had the PC map set as high as 20% at "0" throttle with a big "accellerator pump" turned on with a big shot.

All these helped from stock with a PU kit and with the FBF PC map, which seemed to make it worse, but it won't go away.

Street riding, it's gone. It did it when I first got it just riding around town, mainly at stops, but that seems to be gone now.

Sometimes it is a little hard to start after it dies, but most of the time it fires off OK. A couple of times it's died on the compression stroke and the starter won't roll it over, but a flick of the release gets it spinning.

I'd say it was a glitch in the FI program, but if carbed bikes are doing it, it must be something else.

Racing conditions it's at it worst. That's also when it pisses me off the most. It's also hurt me a few times. The harder I push the bike the worse it gets. Just tooling around in the woods it rarely does it, but things happen a lot faster in racing conditions. That makes me think it's the TPS. Like the TPS moves to fast and the CPU looses track of it and drops the fire? That would effect the carb bikes, also.

Throttle cams? If the TPS moved slower would it help? Faster maybe? There are cams to do both now. I guess it's something I can try.

 

[Coffee]

I have been dealing with the same problem on my 08/TC450. Attached is a short video of a flame out in which you can still hear the motor turning over and no go.

http://vholdr.com/video/barnhartvale-hill-climb

It does this on hills, logs, rocks and roots. Predictably! Grrrrr! I am starting to think that it may be in the auto decomp mech at low RPM. JD jetting kit, Recluse and multiple carb and valve checks/settings lead to nothing. We have also dicussed this on TT all with great ideas but no repair.

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=658405&highlight=

Thanks guys if you can figure this out because I think this will make alot of Huskey riders much happier.

Does it happen more in the warmer weather? Mostly uphills when backing off the throttle?

My TE250 does that too, as did the newer Husaberg I was riding with a while ago. Use clutch, stay on throttle is what I've been doing.

I did a lot of research on this and it seems many (all?) brands with AP carbs have this issue.

 

[MOTORHEAD]

But, what do they do to fix the AP carbs ? Better AP's to shoot fuel in better seems to be the fix for them.

Guys with the new RMZ swear they don't do anything like that, they are supposed to be flawless. The test on the new CRF says it's also flawless. The only one I've seen that they say it's not is the Husky.

To me the Husky seems more like an electronic fart.

 

[Coffee]

But, what do they do to fix the AP carbs ? Better AP's to shoot fuel in better seems to be the fix for them.

Guys with the new RMZ swear they don't do anything like that, they are supposed to be flawless. The test on the new CRF says it's also flawless. The only one I've seen that they say it's not is the Husky.

To me the Husky seems more like an electronic fart.

It's not the AP. Steady throttle or slowly closing throttle on warmer days (usually) going up hill. The AP only does something when opening the throttle - not while steady state or being closed. There have been many reports on other forums about many brand having the same problem - esp when being ridden hard into a corner while racing off road.

If you are referring to an Husky being reviewed by a magazine who knows how it was set up.

Yes it could easily be electronic, I'll just reporting what I've read and experienced.

 

[rawperformance]

Well having had to live through an 02 crf450r I an fairly sure the carb is at least very close. These carbs are very good these days and seeing as everyone runs a FCR I don't think the carb is an issue. They are just not that different.

Has anyone disconnected the gear range switch? This used to be a mod on the older Yamaha's.

I added an other vid to listen to. You will notice how hard the bike is to restart. Normally she starts very easy, but after a flame out I need to manual clear before it will fire. Seymore the last clip is for you.

http://vholdr.com/video/tc450-stalls

The reason I thought of the range sensor is that I have read that some of the SM and TE bikes have a flashing Neutral light that is a problem.

Seymore have you made any progress with your bike?

 

[Coffee]

Has anyone disconnected the gear range switch? This used to be a mod on the older Yamaha's.

Mike Kay did I believe on a previous bike he had with not so good results. Maybe he will see this.

 

[dags]

seymor- My bike was very lean to start with and it was even worse. I could barely keep in running. I added the PC and increased the fuel by about 20% up to 6000RPM and that helped a great deal. I didn't get any stalls until I got into race conditions.

I have been playing with the map and decreased the fuel which has the bike a little more responsive, but it seems like the stall is worse.

If I did what you are suggesting wouldn't I be taking out even more fuel? I'd think it would be even worse?

I don't know what my FB1 setting is. I'm 250 miles from a dealer, that's why I added the PC, so I can tune the FI myself.

I started with a FBF map then a "zero" map and then my own.

I'm wondering if a large increase in fuel at "0" throttle opening would help?

rawperformance- Since you bike has a carb and no FI, it makes me wonder if there is an igniton map issue.

fitness2go- I know you've had the same problem, I've seen your post also.

Whatever it is, there is something just not right with these bikes. They even mentioned it in the DIRTBIKE test of the new '09's. So don't expect it to go away soon.

If the TPS & FB1 are not set correctly first, you WONT rid the bike of the stalls.

Just the way it is rofessor: