Disappointed fan install job, need help/ answers.

[bower100]

I'm an anal nerd....it took me about two months to install the Spal cooling fan on my te450. Well, since the bike was down, I also re-did the top end on the bike and I made a set of custom radiator guards .... that proved to be a challenge.

The fan install job got involved as well, making a light gage s/s mount that accommodated the rad guards.

As for the fan, as planned I had the head machined to fit the OEM Husky coolant thermo-switch and wired the OEM Husky fan relay in too. The switch cycles the fan on/off at a predetermined temp within the heads cooling jacket. Problem is it comes on at something like 140*F. ( I have a Vapor speedo/tach/temp indicator which measures temp. at radiator inlets).
Essentially it's running all the time as the bike only takes about two minutes to warm up to 140*.... not good. Plus after engines off it runs so long cooling it down, if I hadn't included a manual switch to override it, it would drain the battery too much.

Here's the thing, I think I bought a temp switch for a 2008 SM/TE450... fuel injected, (not being able to find a parts fiche for a fan equipped Euro te450 ). I never thought that switch might have a different temp calibration setting .... maybe it doesn't!

I dunno, does the fan on those bikes run just about all the time?

The other possibility is the head gaskets. Upon inspection I've learned that a series of small holes in those gaskets, where the coolant passes from the cylinder up into the head, is a restriction point. A kind of calibration point Husky uses to determining overall coolant flow rate. They also direct flow, larger holes in the back of the gasket, allowing more flow to the rear of the head. I presume that's to prevent the "cold" coolant which enters the front/bottom of the cylinder from taking the shortest path up into the head and out to the water pump.

Now I wonder if the gaskets differ in that respect and so require a different temp switch. Again, I dunno.

Any help here would be great! I sure went to a lot of trouble to automate the fan.

Good news, the fan definitely slows the rise of temperature. Not sure it's the total answer.

Dave

 

[markymark83]

Not sure about the gasket issues etc. but I've had similar overheating issues with my 04 510. Tried flushing etc and different grades of 'off the shelf' Coolants from just a general Automotive store with no great change.

Ended up going to my local Husky dealer and started asking about a fan etc to which they said it could work but isn't the best solution and ended up pointing me to a bottle of coolant they had sitting on the shelves called 'Engine Ice'. Apparently all the race teams use it etc, bit pricey at $30 AUD for 1.5l but thats all you need anyway.

Tried this stuff, So far it has worked excellent, Can let the bike sit on idle for 10 mins and no overheating. Only time I have over heated it was on a pretty hot day (as you can imagine in Australia) while going up a pretty steep hill climb and then finding myself revving her ring out to get it off the log I had become stuck on. Strongly suggest you try the Engine Ice.

http://www.engineice.cc/

Im looking at getting motards soon so I can ride it on the road a bit more, prob gonna get a fan done for that aswell. thinking bout just having it on a manual switch and just turn it on and off as I need.

 

[Ruffus]

As far as the fan running after the engine is off. Find a wire thats live only when the engines running, using a relay, tap into that wire as the exciter feed, the power leads go to the other terminals on the relay & will only power the fan when the engines running.

 

[Darkside]

Did you say you put the temp switch in the head? I'm pretty sure stock 08 switches are in the radiator. I believe the actual running temp in the head is is quite a bit higher.

 

[bower100]

Really! Can anyone please confirm that?

If it's at the exit of a radiator that'd make some sense.

When I went to order the temp switch I used a 2008 TE parts fitche,(because the '07 USA TE had no fan), and the illustration showed it in the back of the head right where my head had a "blank" spot for it. When I called the dealer they had a switch in stock...similar part #, that was "for a TE" so I took it.

If I can't get an answer here is there does Husky have a tech support guy available to owners for help?

Honestly, I wouldn't expect a dealer to know a detail such as this. Someone connected with factory information is needed.

'08 TE or SMR guys, ..... does the fan on your bikes run a lot?

Dave

 

[ioneater]

My fan kicks on when in stop and go traffic on a warm 80F + day OR when it tight woods with little forward motion (10mph or less) for a minute or two. Never overheated with it so far, although I've watched it closer now since installing the Rekluse that is clutching constantly at slower speeds in 2nd or 3rd gear. Still using original OEM coolant.

 

[jkm]

My '07 Euro very rarely comes on. Slow going and slipping the clutch causes the engine to get hot and the fan to kick on for a minute, but not much longer..

 

[MOTORHEAD]

The '08 TE has the switch in the back of the head, not the radiator.

My fan runs a lot. All the time..... no. In tight woods it seems to stay on all the time and will boil over if it's not working.

 

[bower100]

My '07 Euro very rarely comes on. Slow going and slipping the clutch causes the engine to get hot and the fan to kick on for a minute, but not much longer..

Using any special coolant? Do you happen to have a TrailTech Vapor on your bike, displaying actual temperatures?

I'm really interested in what jetting your running in your '07. Is it a 450?
I have:
Pilot: 85 ( larger than many others)
Fuel Screw: 2 turns out
Needle jet: 42
Needle: Red with clip in 4th of 7 slots (a JD "summer" needle ? )
Main: 185
Leak Jet: 70
Floats: parallel to bowl, or 8mm if measured. (I personally believe this has a significant effect on the motors tune. It sure does on other carbs).

Dave

 

[bower100]

My fan runs a lot. All the time..... no. In tight woods it seems to stay on all the time and will boil over if it's not working.

That's where I was at before adding the fan. Have not ridden the bike in the woods yet to see how it is now, but just idling in the driveway at home I can see the fans doing some good. The Vapor shows the temp very slowly climbs, up to around 215*.
Before the fan, temp would run up to, or past 235*, within a minute.



Thanks, Dave

 

[bower100]

Did you say you put the temp switch in the head? I'm pretty sure stock 08 switches are in the radiator. I believe the actual running temp in the head is is quite a bit higher.

The illustration in the parts manuals put it with the head...kinda in the back, at least in the 250-450-510 smr/te/tc book.

Anyone ever see it in a radiator on a Husky?

Many streetbikes have in the bottom tank of the rad. sensing outlet temp.

Dave

 

[HuskyMax]

My '07 Euro very rarely comes on. Slow going and slipping the clutch causes the engine to get hot and the fan to kick on for a minute, but not much longer..

My 07 Euro 510 is the same way. My fan will stay on until I can get to a section where i can run 1/4 throttle 2nd gear speed and then it shuts off. But I have never had it boil over.

 

[HuskyMax]

Using any special coolant? Do you happen to have a TrailTech Vapor on your bike, displaying actual temperatures?

I'm really interested in what jetting your running in your '07. Is it a 450?
I have:
Pilot: 85 ( larger than many others)
Fuel Screw: 2 turns out
Needle jet: 42
Needle: Red with clip in 4th of 7 slots (a JD "summer" needle ? )
Main: 185
Leak Jet: 70
Floats: parallel to bowl, or 8mm if measured. (I personally believe this has a significant effect on the motors tune. It sure does on other carbs).

Dave

Pilot: 50
Stock fuel screw: About 1.5 to 2 turns. The aluminum zip-ty fuel screw is junk in my opinion. Completely different running bike with the two fuel screws.
Needle jet: stock
Needle: Red with clip in 4th from top
Main: 180-185 depending on weather
Leak jet:70
Float is stock
Elevation: 700'

When I put the uptite Y on I also changed the coolant to engine ice. I can tell it takes a longer time for the fan to come on now.

 

[bower100]

Thanks to all "active" forum members for the info, forums are helpful.

Anyone care to jump in?

Edit: The following may well be wrong as I found out the sensor works on ressistance not like a switch.

(Gained knowledge tidbit:
as well as the Husky OEM temp sensing switch, I also bought the Husky relay . It has a on delay function ... when the temp switch closes ... 12vdc to relay, it takes about 5-8 seconds for the relay to close and turn on the fan. This would keep the fan from cycling on/off excessivly should the temp hang right at the trip point. )

Still don't know why my temp switch is coming on at 135-140* though. I need an answer. I'm determined to get it working like a Euro 450.

Pilot jet is a 42, not 85 as I thought.


On the subject of fan effectivness ...I'm gonna try something. I don't have the popular "Y" fitting on the rad hoses and so I should be getting less coolant flow to the right rad where the fans mounted. The "Y" piece balances the flow right to left, but it might be even better to divert more flow to the rad with the fan on it, huh? I'm gonna fab up a fitting to do just that. See if it has any benefit.

Dave

 

[bower100]

Ah-ha, .... I made a bad assumption. The Husky temp sensor is, well, a sensor. I assumed it was a temp switch like a bi-metallic where contacts simply close on temp rise. I found out it's resistance changes, drops as temp rises. A rough estimate, at 90*F resistance it's 1300 ohms and at 135*F it's 550 ohms.
The wiring diagram for a Euro TE with a fan shows 12vdc to one side of the relay coil and the other side goes to the Elec. Unit Sol. Control. The temp sensors grounded on one lead and the other also goes to the Elec. Unit Cont. So it seems this Control Unit "sees" the signal from the sensor and determines when the relay pulls in. It also has wires going to it from an Air Temp Sensor, some Solenoid Valve and a Air valve.

I basically had the same thing only without the Control Unit. Unfortunatly without it, my fan comes within a minute or so after the cold bikes started.

Hmmmmm, what to do.

Dsve

 

[bower100]

Looking for suggestions for this fan install problem.

This is an extension of my thread:http://www.cafehusky.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4594

Well I found out whats wrong. I made a bad assumption. The Husky temp sensor is, well, a sensor. It's not a temp switch like a bi-metallic where contacts simply close on temp rise. I found out it's resistance changes, drops as temp rises. A rough estimate, at 90*F resistance it's 1300 ohms and at 135*F it's 550 ohms. When it reaches about 500-550 ohms it pulls in the relay and the fan starts.

I looked at the wiring diagram for a Euro TE with a fan and it shows 12vdc from the key switch going to one side of the relay coil and the coils other side goes to the Elec. Unit Sol. Control. on terminal 2. The temp sensor is grounded on one lead and the other lead goes to the Elec. Unit Cont. terminal 7. (The Control Unit also has wires coming into it from an Air Temp Sensor, some Solenoid Valve and a Air valve.) So it seems this Control Unit "sees" the signal from the sensor and determines when the relay pulls in.

So basically I have the same thing only without the Control Unit. Unfortunatly without it, my fan comes within a minute or so after the cold bikes started what to do.

Any suggestions what I can do to make it work right?

Dave

 

[7point62]

Hi Dave. You could raise the temperature at which the fan kicks in by wiring a suitably valued resistor in series with the temperature sensor (i.e. between the sensor and the relay). What you'll need to know roughly is the resistance of the sensor at the temp. that you want the fan to actuate.

Say its 250 ohms for example.

The relay needs to see 500 - 550 ohms to actuate so adding a 270 ohm resistor would be a good place to start. A little trial and error may be necessary. Do you have a download link for the circuit diagram you mention?

The hardest part with these things is often making the modification butch enough to survive the rigours of life on a bike, but there are all sorts of things that can be done with hot glue, two pack resin, heatshrink sleeving and such.

I'll be more than happy to help with this.

 

[7point62]

Me again. Dependant on the maximum current draw through the sensor (which depends on the relay topology and minimum sensor resistance) it might be less hassle to establish the correct operating point resistance with a variable resistor (a bit like the ones found in volume controls in all things audio) and then when the correct resistance is found then it can be substituted for a more robust fixed resistor. But we can work that bit out later. You got a soldering iron?

 

[ioneater]

Thanks to all "active" forum members for the info, forums are helpful.

Anyone care to jump in? Dave

I don't get this Would an inactive forum member post? Sarcasm? Hope you get the fan sorted out. Sounds like you have all the info you need now.

 

[bower100]

Yup, I can solder some ressistance into the circuit with some substancial wattage. I started thinking along those lines.
I just wondered if someone might suspect what Husky actually has going on in inside that Control Unit electronically speaking. Maybe a different way to do this.

If I don't have a switch in that curcuit will there be a constant load on the battery...even if it's a small current draw?
( Right now I don't have a key switch to shut off the bike, just a kill button.)

Dave