• Hi everyone,

    As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.

    When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.

    Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.

    Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.

    Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.

    Thanks for your patience and support!

Dirt bike turning

ray_ray

ray_ray

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I've got a lot of free time now, so the last year or so, I've been trying to actually learn how to ride a dirt bike using the correct technique and using PRO riders as my reference, in an effort to ride a little faster but mostly to ride a little safer, at speed, and make it look easy, as PRO riders usually do. I spend a lot of time reviewing video and stopping the action to check what a rider is doing at a specific moment on the track. Sort of like a state machine. All this might sound simple to many of you, but for me, its a big deal for riding with speed and control.
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The pic is Ryan Villopoto (on the KAWI) making a pass on a Ice One Husqvarna rider Max Nagl over in EU racing the FIM outdoor series ...

RV2-pass-nagel4.jpg

Little contrasting techniques from what I see, you might see something different ..

RV2, is pushing the bike over (?), remaining pretty much upright on the bike with his weight pushing an axis straight down thu the bike to the rear wheel, giving him traction rear-wheel. His right leg is out, helping weight the frontend and helping turn the bike. If you see anything else, feel free to add it ..

Nagl, looks alot different at this same moment. His body looks pretty much in line with the layed-over bike and his right foot is on the peg. That foot stayed on the peg through out the entire turn. I had a guy once explain using your foot that way is good. I thought at the time that he was BSing me or clueless on what he was telling me. But maybe not. Do any of you guys keep that inside foot weighting that peg?

It almost looks like Nagel is standing up also ...
 
Good shot.

Nagl should have definitely put his nuts on the tank, leg out, cut across from outside to in and taken Poto out.
It ain't easy being green. :D
 
cool picture
riding a dirt bike at this level is like a crash is eminent at any moment
the best riders do have great lines but,,,,, don't be deceived by this as their greatest asset is balance
Bob Hannah proved that, riding at a new level he would pass people outside the regular (for those days) and be at the edge
yes he crashed but he also saved it on MANY occasions and it looked wild watching racing at that level (then)
today they have raised the bar again and you are seeing better tires and tuning to help them feel comfortable
they are still balancing speed, traction and line as it happens so watch lines as how it occurs not the absolute word on how to attack a corner per se
 
Nagl has his head way out over the fender and his body center is shifted to the left. The left shoulder and elbow are weighting the left bar end to provide extra control. Line choice looks to be a factor. RV is trying to power into the inside line and has the throttle wrapped around while Nagl is in what appears to be the faster outside line where the track angle allows him to stay almost upright in relation to the grade of the turn.

My take is Nagl was not aware that RV was hungry for the pass and gave up the line while RV went for the glory.

I personally prefer to keep my feet on the pegs as much as possible. The biggest mistake I see on the trail or in recent races are made when somebody puts their foot out/down unnecessarily causing them to screw up. This happens quite a bit on nasty climbs or rocky sections. The guys who get the podium spots are up, balanced, and going for it. The old saying holds true no matter how fancy your bike is...

WHEN IN DOUBT, GAS IT!:banana:
 
Nagl knew he was there ...This was on the top side ...
RV2-pass-nagel3.jpg


--

It's a balancing act and crash at any moment for sure but it will work with technique for all of us I think ... I just started counter-steering a few months back ... I don't think the bike will side out from under so easily with counter steering and sitting up as RV2 is doing his bike ...It needs to be a fluid motion going from bike upright to the bike pushed over and down with that inside arm ... Seems the outside elbow just goes up in the air ...

Nagl head and body is way forward over the bars ... That looks so weird to me ... On the trails, feet on pegs as much as possible to keep them attached to my body ... But in an open corner like where Nagl, I just about always move a foot off the peg to get it away from the ground and protect it ...

That track we have here has a sweeper corner ... I'm about ready to got back out there and just practice ... I'll try to remember to keep a inside foot on the peg... Sounds easy enough but it's not. Seems like weighting that inside peg would cause the bike to slide out but maybe not .. I read once where this lowers the center-of-gravity and will give traction. And after watching Nagal do that entire turn at speed, it must work ... That's a pretty bowled out corner at the bottom also just past where the pic was made.
 
Wow, fantastic picture!

Tons of technique to break down just from this one shot. I'll give my best explanation for the parts I understand.

First thing that jumps out at me is that this shot captures the actual moment of surrender on Nagl's part. Look at the roost spraying directly off of Villopoto's rear tire. Now look at Nagl's rear tire and notice that there is 3-4 feet of gap between Nagl's rear tire and the flying roost. Also look at how much longer Nagl's right fore arm looks than Villopoto's. That's because Nagl's right wrist is straight as he rolls off the throttle. Villopoto's fore arm looks shorter from this angle because his right wrist is bent as he tries to pull the throttle cable out of the top of the carb. (Speed is all in the right wrist.) Also look at the distance between Villopoto's front axle and the top of bar pad or even the distance from the axle to either hand. Now look at Nagl's. Villopoto's front suspension is fully extended while Nagl's is compressed. Even with his weight forward, if Nagl were on the gas his forks would be extended. Villopoto is inside but drifting to the outside. He already has a wheel length on Nagl and if he continues to drift into the outside line he would be able to punt Nagl into the third row of spectators. It's a fight Nagl can't win and he knows it so he's backing off and surrendering the position.

Second thing that jumps out at me is that Villopoto's front wheel appears to actually be slightly off the ground. He is controlling the bike entirely with body English at this point. Incredible skill. Most bikes want to strand up straight when the front wheel comes off the ground while cornering.

Both riders are using perfect technique for where they are on the track. Nagl is in the attack postion. The attack position is where you want to be as much as possible, butt off the seat, knees bent, back arched forward, arms bent with elbows up. This allows the most and free-est movement of your body around the bike to adjust balance. It also allows your legs to add to the amount of suspension your bike has. Cornering is difficult in the attack position because it has a higher center of gravity than seated. Nagl is overcoming this because he appears to be railing a rut. Look at the fuzzy dark line in front of his front wheel on the outside edge. That's a rut. And that's why his weight is so far forward. His forward weight is holding the front wheel in the rut. That's how he can lean his body with the bike like that and not wash out his front wheel. If his wheel were to climb out of that rut he's toast. A big advantage to being able to maintain the attack position through a corner is that Nagl will not have to transition from seated to standing after the corner. That's one less squat to perform. Do that through several corners in a 20 something lap race and you've conserved a lot of energy. Villopoto on the other hand has awesome body position for loose traction in a corner. A newby would want his elbows an inch or two higher but other than that he's textbook on how it's done.
 
I believe that shot is from the qualifying race where the finish order was 1.Cairoli 2.Villipoto 3.Nagl. Ryan made that pass stick.
 
The foot out is a counter-balance to keep the front wheel planted. And it is the recommended technique. In the first post, it looks like the Husky rider was just about to stand up in prep for the straight away following the turn. But their overall body positions are not dissimilar. They have both pushed the bikes down to the inside of the turn and have their upper body weight biased to the front of the bike, like you would expect, for traction.
 
Auto5guy said:
Wow, fantastic picture!

Tons of technique to break down just from this one shot. I'll give my best explanation for the parts I understand.

First thing that jumps out at me is that this shot captures the actual moment of surrender on Nagl's part. Look at the roost spraying directly off of Villopoto's rear tire. Now look at Nagl's rear tire and notice that there is 3-4 feet of gap between Nagl's rear tire and the flying roost. Also look at how much longer Nagl's right fore arm looks than Villopoto's. That's because Nagl's right wrist is straight as he rolls off the throttle. Villopoto's fore arm looks shorter from this angle because his right wrist is bent as he tries to pull the throttle cable out of the top of the carb. (Speed is all in the right wrist.) Also look at the distance between Villopoto's front axle and the top of bar pad or even the distance from the axle to either hand. Now look at Nagl's. Villopoto's front suspension is fully extended while Nagl's is compressed. Even with his weight forward, if Nagl were on the gas his forks would be extended. Villopoto is inside but drifting to the outside. He already has a wheel length on Nagl and if he continues to drift into the outside line he would be able to punt Nagl into the third row of spectators. It's a fight Nagl can't win and he knows it so he's backing off and surrendering the position.

Second thing that jumps out at me is that Villopoto's front wheel appears to actually be slightly off the ground. He is controlling the bike entirely with body English at this point. Incredible skill. Most bikes want to strand up straight when the front wheel comes off the ground while cornering.

Both riders are using perfect technique for where they are on the track. Nagl is in the attack postion. The attack position is where you want to be as much as possible, butt off the seat, knees bent, back arched forward, arms bent with elbows up. This allows the most and free-est movement of your body around the bike to adjust balance. It also allows your legs to add to the amount of suspension your bike has. Cornering is difficult in the attack position because it has a higher center of gravity than seated. Nagl is overcoming this because he appears to be railing a rut. Look at the fuzzy dark line in front of his front wheel on the outside edge. That's a rut. And that's why his weight is so far forward. His forward weight is holding the front wheel in the rut. That's how he can lean his body with the bike like that and not wash out his front wheel. If his wheel were to climb out of that rut he's toast. A big advantage to being able to maintain the attack position through a corner is that Nagl will not have to transition from seated to standing after the corner. That's one less squat to perform. Do that through several corners in a 20 something lap race and you've conserved a lot of energy. Villopoto on the other hand has awesome body position for loose traction in a corner. A newby would want his elbows an inch or two higher but other than that he's textbook on how it's done.
Click to expand...
Villopoto would probably have his elbows higher also if he had more flexibility. Scaphoid injuries have limited his movement.
 
On the newer bikes i/we need to keep our bodies on the centerline of the bike or really close to it to be one with the bike to keep control. I find if I'm off the centerline the flex of the frame and swing arm increases. This is what happens in the super cross turns the front wheel is in one line while the rear tire is picking another line. Then they go down.

On the road turning left I drop my left leg, the bike leans and makes the turn perfect. I learned this on the street. Well watching the king Kenny Roberts video. I applied it to the street's and street legal dirt bikes. As my balance and handling increased I took my left foot off the left peg when making a left turn. Just incase the bike slide out. In some cases I slid my boot. The big berms going fast wasn't my thing. I stayed within my limits.

With the older dual shock bikes I could be actually hanging off to one side and it will still tract straight.
 
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