Anyone remove all the electric start componets from a new Beta??

[fletchman45]

Just curious how tough it is and how long it takes and how much total weight you save removing the E-start components from a Beta 2-stroke??????? Anyone have serious time on one and how is durability when compared to a Husky 250 2-stroke or a Gas Gas?????????

 

[Motosportz]

I bought a husky E-start kit for my 06 TC250. Was 11 pounds with all the gears, motor, battery and wires. For reference on what those parts weigh.

 

[water racer]

They make a race wire loom that eliminates wire for the lights, turn signals, but I am sure some side cutters might do the same. Bike comes with an MX number plate to replace the head light.
As far as the e-start goes, I have to admit, I have forgotten it has a kicker.

I have about 400 miles on mine which is not a lot, but I have no issues other than my horn quit working, I would say the pressure washer got it.

I would rely more on the fact that they have been building enduro bikes for ten years and you just don't hear much if any thing negative written about them.

 

[Beta Steve]

I have almost 80 hours on mine, almost all tight single track riding as hard as my old B level body can handle. Usually a 12 to 14 mph avg. My starter motor has failed to engage exactly once, and that was after a crash. Second push, and it started right up. Previous bike was a 2011 GG 300. It obviously had many more hours on it so a direct comparison wouldn't be fair. But I can say the Beta is designed and assembled far better, and I need to utilize far fewer tools for maintenance. One of the guys I ride with is getting off his 511 for a new 300 rr I think this month. He rode my bike the week after Motosportz did. On the byob site you can get a block off plate designed to replace the starter, as Cody Webb did for his Endurocross bike. I have no idea why a mere mortal would want to do that, but that's just me.

 

[Beta Steve]

The horn is a common issue, due to location it fills with mud. I relocated mine it still works fine and my bike has seen plenty of mud!

 

[fletchman45]

Is the starter simple to remove???? 11 pounds is huge and I mean huge when your pushing 50 and pushing the bike harder then you should. I have NEVER felt the need for electric start not even on a Gas gas 300 (which does start ALOT easier then a Husky 300!) Really need the weight savings and curious what you can get a Beta 250 down to with a moto numberplate and all ES hardware gone. Anyone know????? I'm going to try to ride one somewhere. Around here I don't know anyone riding one yet.

 

[fletchman45]

Why is it you can not order a Beta for a credit without the electric start??????????

 

[Motosportz]

One of the guys I ride with is getting off his 511 for a new 300 rr I think this month. He rode my bike the week after Motosportz did.

Heard Josh was selling to get a beta but did not know cuz he rode yours. I thought yours started quick and nice when I rode it. I love E-start. Wish I could add it to my 165.

 

[GMP]

The starter is the lowest point on the motor, why bother? The bike is light and you don't think about it. The GG starter is junk so sure I'd remove that, KTM too. On a Beta just get a LiOn battery to save weight and keep it. I use my kicker for HS starts but the button for restarts after a fall. It saves energy and time and works perfectly, so a much harder case to make for removal. I did remove a lot of wiring, connectors, etc., leaving just the estart, charging, and head/tail light systems.

 

[water racer]

I agree, starter is below the engine. Beta feels very light when riding and does not tire you out.

Take the starter off and sell it to a KTM owner and see if they can retrofit...

 

[GMP]

KTM (and GG) need to completely redesign the case castings like the Beta and Sherco to get a decent starter function, as well as better CG of the system. The shallow engagement, cover mounted(not dimmensionally stable), dry, ring gear rivited on flywheel setup is a joke. The Beta bendix runs under a sealed ignition cover in a well of oil and engages the flywheel in the same plane, just like the primary pinion/clutch ring gear. I don't think about it any more than the one in my truck.

Fletchman,

I remember you from GGRC. Trust me, the Beta workmanship and detail makes the GG look like something from high school shop class, in more ways than just the starter.

 

[Beta Steve]

Now there's a statement I'd like to see on the GG site...

 

[GMP]

Yeah that would start a war for sure. True though from my experiences over the years.

 

[Norman Foley]

KTM (and GG) need to completely redesign the case castings like the Beta and Sherco to get a decent starter function, as well as better CG of the system. The shallow engagement, cover mounted(not dimmensionally stable), dry, ring gear rivited on flywheel setup is a joke. The Beta bendix runs under a sealed ignition cover in a well of oil and engages the flywheel in the same plane, just like the primary pinion/clutch ring gear. I don't think about it any more than the one in my truck.

Fletchman,

I remember you from GGRC. Trust me, the Beta workmanship and detail makes the GG look like something from high school shop class, in more ways than just the starter.

This from KTM Talk Beta 250RR post.....
"Remove the ignition cover, as mine was dryer than a witches tit in there, NO lube at all,
so I did the ktm wet mod."

Is this guy confused at what he was looking at?

 

[GMP]

I saw that post. No, he has a point, but there is no "wet mod". The Beta bendix sits in a well in the bottom of the ignition compartment, starter motor is sealed and enters from the back. There should be a small amount of oil in this well that keeps the bendix lubed, 7cc per the engine manual. This is added before the cover is installed and is not shared from the transmission. Although its not a normal maintanence item, its probably not a bad idea to pull the cover occasionally and see how things are going, check for moisture, debris, clean the bendix, and change the 7cc of oil. All it takes is a new gasket. After 30 hrs on mine I think it would have failed if dry from the factory.

 

[Norman Foley]

I saw that post. No, he has a point, but there is no "wet mod". The Beta bendix sits in a well in the bottom of the ignition compartment, starter motor is sealed and enters from the back. There should be a small amount of oil in this well that keeps the bendix lubed, 7cc per the engine manual. This is added before the cover is installed and is not shared from the transmission. Although its not a normal maintanence item, its probably not a bad idea to pull the cover occasionally and see how things are going, check for moisture, debris, clean the bendix, and change the 7cc of oil. All it takes is a new gasket. After 30 hrs on mine I think it would have failed if dry from the factory.

So he has probably vented his ignition cover and added a larger volume of oil in the vent?

 

[GMP]

Not sure, but if he literally means the "wet mod" then yes, totally unneccessary. Its fine as is, as long as there is a splash of oil in there to keep things smooth. My first thought is that they forgot to add the oil at the factory, and thats all thats needed. Remember there is a much better engagement setup with bigger teeth on the pinion and flywheel ring gear, and no dimmension problems or plane changes that add friction, so it works great. Its literally like the system in a car, but in place of a greased bendix in the starter assy there is a splash of oil behind a sealed cover. You don't need a lot of oil because the bendix is the lowest point and the oil will always settle there. I consider it an engineering problem solved considering how mine works and no reported failures or even missed starts in a year of production and use now. If I have time later I will cut and paste a pic from the manual.

 

[PALMER84ONE]

11 lb savings to remove the luxury button? NO THANKS!!!
This remindes me of when I used to MTB, all the guys would try a shave ounces off their bikes only to find out it didn't do much for their performance. I left my bike alone and trained harder, yes I am a lot older now but it's just not worth it.
My MTB was 22.00 lbs I think, that was aluminum frame with all XTR component (before disc brake invention). Ya, I'm old!!!
My .02

 

[robertaccio]

11 lbs is alot, Fletch rides at a different level than most. My suggestion, first intall an earth-x or other brand Li battery and drop a few lbs up high, see you like er with the button but lighter. Then go the full monte, heck you can always reinstall the estart assy parts.
One of our crew immediatly removed all the estart stuff off his 250XC-W Kato to lighten the machine, the thing practically starts with your hand anyway. (I personally would not remove the e start stuff) but that @ 11lbs is alot of sprung weight no matter where it resides.

 

[GMP]

The starter motor itself is shorter than that on the GG or KTM, optimum mechanical effeciency allows this no doubt. I doubt its more than 3lbs. Its also VERY low. I find it hard to beleive that anyone will notice the weight. You will likely accumulate more weight in a skid plate during a typical wet/muddy ride. Battery I couild see as that is much higher, it comes out in seconds for a test to see if you notice the weight. I know after several years of poo-pooing estart on 2stroke GGs and KTMs, the Beta has made me a believer. One race this year I came through a silty, blind, uphill corner to find a down rider wadded up and blocking the trail. I went down in an attempt to get out of the rut and around and the bike ended up cross hill on its side, flooded. Picked it up, open throttle, 1-2 seconds on the button and it was running,
then I'm gone. Minimum time and energy wasted, positioning the bike to kick it and then kicking.

The Beta 300 starts one kick every time, but it is a 300. While it is an exceptional 300 as far as handling and feel, its not a 125 and there are not enough parts to remove to make it feel like one. If absolute light weight is priority then perhaps the 250/300 platform of any brand needs rethinking. JMO.