Another Hydraulic Clutch Prob

[cbreakin]

The hydraulic clutch may a have a nice light pull and "good" feel but I've grown weary of it's reliability. After reading thread after thread about problems with these clutches it finally happened to me. My 09 TE510's 3 months old with 600 easy break-in miles. Today I get on to go for a little spin. With the motor running I pull in the clutch and its "spongy." I pull it a few more times and it fades to nothing. So...I shut down and start to investigate, there's no fluid in the res. Traced the line back, no obvious leaks there, so I pull the slave cylinder, remove the cir-clip and inspect. Piston and O-ring are fine, cylinder walls are fine. Hmm, ok so I put it back together and bleed/bench test it. All seems well, so I start the bike. Same thing happens, spongy first pull then fades to nothing. So I start all over again, (tear down re-bleed) but this time it seems to be working, even went for a test ride, working great. Not having found anything "wrong" I just dont trust it enough to go for a long ride. Any suggestions on where the fluid could be going?

 

[columbia510]

My old 07 had a few clutch issues just as you described. After fiddling with the clutch and purchasing a new stock piston I still had the same intermittent engagement. I ordered a 7602 piston and NEVER had anymore issues.

 

[Colo moto]

cbreakin, I can ship you a new quad ring if you think that might help. Not sure what might be the problem if it works then doesn't??

 

[cbreakin]

Thanks Clay I really appreciate that, but your piston and quad ring looks, fits, and functions perfectly after bench testing. I'm 99% sure that isn't the problem. I'm starting think it has something to do with the master cylinder on the bars. I just installed new levers and may very well have done something wrong there. I had the whole set-up apart the second time so who knows what fixed it. It's working fine now. Thanks columbia510 for your input, and thanks Colo moto (7602 Racing) for standing behind your excellent product with excellent customer service!

 

[ray_ray]

Many of us had issues here that were fixed with the 0-ring only ... mine went out and after the new fangled 0-ring was applied...no more issues to date

And I'm with you ... I like cables as they are easy to troubleshoot ...
Even if I had never had an issue with the 0-ring, the pull is still too hard I feel ...

Not sure where the fluid goes but there is not much in the entire system ... Mine always gave out after about 20-25 minutes of riding in the woods so be sure UR test rides are long enough to re-produce the issue ... URs is sounding like a bleeding issue possibly ...

But with all this said, I pulled the clutch on a bike the other day that had a clutch cable ...and it felt like crap ..

 

[cbreakin]

A little off topic but I really actually prefer cable clutches in general. Sure the the lever pull may be a little "harder" on some. I have an 05 YZ250 2T and the clutch pull on that bike is every bit as light as the the husky, but what I really like is the feel of the YZ clutch. It's very consistent, and translates what's going on at the clutch back to lever, by comparison the hydraulic clutch has a "vague" feel, and it seems the engagement point changes pull to pull. It's nice and all but not really worth the extra complication IMO. I once heard someone say, "if you leave it out of the design it can't break."

 

[seredyns]

I had simlar issues, installed the new piston and o ring and everything was fine for the next ride. Whe I got home I was going to take the bike for a ride after washing it and no clutch. I had noticed that sometimes I had a small amount of residue near the lever so I ordered a rebuild kit for the master cylinder and that seems to have fixed the issue. I probably did not need the piston and o-ring but at least that is done now so I don't have to worry about it. What amazes me is that it lost that much fluid near the lever and I never really noticed. I have heard of other people having to do the rebuild kit on newer bikes also.

 

[ray_ray]

Yep, that hydo clutch has the same 'vague' feeling start to finish of a ride ... I've gotten used to it now I think and do not really care as long as it does not go limp

When I did have to bleed mine, I found out there is very little fluid in that system ...

 

[waserman]

The whole hydraulic system probabally only holds about 2 ounces,slave, hose and master cylinder.The master needs to be rebuilt once in a while also,seems to me I would get maybe 1-2 seasons out of one if I changed the fluid 2 times a year,about the same with the brake systems,before they required some attention.You use these a lot more than you would on a street bike sooo,they need more attention to stay in top shape

 

[ray_ray]

U can tell me how great these are all you want to but problems every 2 years is BS ....

 

[Slowpoke]

Personally, I've had great reliability from hydro clutches.

I found cable clutches to be a bit of a PITA sometimes and they need more maintenance.

 

[robertaccio]

check also the master cylinder, cylinder, mine had plating delamination. As you know the entire master cyclinder is plated inside and out. After cleaning and removing the piston assy it was easily seen in plating bubbles and chips with sharp edges on the cylinder walls. This was at @1.5 years of use. I still have the OEM slave but with the 7602 piston and seal ring this has proven effective.
Also I noted that the actual hose crimps are a little shaky as well and I have had 2 with slight leaks and spinning (easily) lower/ slave cyl banjo fittings.
Not done yet even after all the system is dialed in, the master cylinder (new one) still weeps a little fluid past the end seal and evidence of oil is always found around the lever and the end of the master cyclinder.

In my opinion these Magura systems are not satisfactory at all. This system is the most basic Hyd system possible and with current tech it should be a totally sealed system and never leak. It is so freaking basic. I was even thinking to cut another groove in the master piston to add another wiper/seal ring. Mine has been working well lately but I have a habit of checking the the fluid level before every ride as this thing has cost me a race in the past. Also I have a ZipTy slave cylinder to install during my next total maintenance cycle. I for one love the feel of the hyd system but will welcome the new gen motor with a cable clutch, most bikes still use them and they are basically bullet proof.

 

[Slowpoke]

I for one love the feel of the hyd system but will welcome the new gen motor with a cable clutch, most bikes still use them and they are basically bullet proof.

I believe the new motor has a juice clutch. The BMW designed cable system on the 1st gen motors was a disaster and was only good for street and light dirt riding. The way the actuator arm worked it was basically a trap for dirt, sticks and other junk to get caught in, causing the arm to not be able to return fully closed, causing clutch slippage.
I saw one get burned out in 20 minutes last spring from snow and ice clogging it up.

Point taken about the leaky MC's. Mine have always seeped a bit, but it's never caused me any problems. They could use a better sealing system.

 

[ghte]

Touch wood, never had an issue in 4000k's on my machine. My wr250f requires more attention and has had 2 cables in 3 years. No biggie either way though.

 

[JasonfromMN]

check also the master cylinder, cylinder, mine had plating delamination. As you know the entire master cyclinder is plated inside and out. After cleaning and removing the piston assy it was easily seen in plating bubbles and chips with sharp edges on the cylinder walls. This was at @1.5 years of use. I still have the OEM slave but with the 7602 piston and seal ring this has proven effective.
Also I noted that the actual hose crimps are a little shaky as well and I have had 2 with slight leaks and spinning (easily) lower/ slave cyl banjo fittings.
Not done yet even after all the system is dialed in, the master cylinder (new one) still weeps a little fluid past the end seal and evidence of oil is always found around the lever and the end of the master cyclinder.

In my opinion these Magura systems are not satisfactory at all. This system is the most basic Hyd system possible and with current tech it should be a totally sealed system and never leak. It is so freaking basic. I was even thinking to cut another groove in the master piston to add another wiper/seal ring. Mine has been working well lately but I have a habit of checking the the fluid level before every ride as this thing has cost me a race in the past. Also I have a ZipTy slave cylinder to install during my next total maintenance cycle. I for one love the feel of the hyd system but will welcome the new gen motor with a cable clutch, most bikes still use them and they are basically bullet proof.

I had to rebuild mine as well. Not from a failure for no reason though but from whacking a tree so hard to blow out the master seal. I too rebuilt the master and it weeps every ride. Always works, but weeps and is evident around the lever.

 

[robertaccio]

I believe the new motor has a juice clutch. The BMW designed cable system on the 1st gen motors was a disaster and was only good for street and light dirt riding. The way the actuator arm worked it was basically a trap for dirt, sticks and other junk to get caught in, causing the arm to not be able to return fully closed, causing clutch slippage.
I saw one get burned out in 20 minutes last spring from snow and ice clogging it up.

Point taken about the leaky MC's. Mine have always seeped a bit, but it's never caused me any problems. They could use a better sealing system.

Cable on new TC450, look close at the prototype fotos left hand side end of crank clutch cover. and even husky relic said its a cable, it looks like a case cover cam type like my kids rm125 style. But on some of the factory BMWs they have hyd slaves mounted down there as well.

 

[jlk_250]

Cable on new TC450, look close at the prototype fotos left hand side end of crank clutch cover. and even husky relic said its a cable,

No, he said hydraulic. Post 65 of the big "BMW Hybrid" thread.

"Oh yeah.

Kayaba suspension all the way around.

The clutch has siginificant updates from the previous BMW design including hydraulic actuation."

I've had both hydraulic and cable clutches before, and prefer a nice hydraulic clutch. When the hydraulic ones were acting up I wanted a simple old cable design. Until I fixed the leaks, that is, and I went back to liking hydraulic. The cable ones were fine when the cables were brand new, but after the cables got dirty I wanted hydraulic.

Seems to me that a well-designed hydraulic clutch is the way to go as long as replacement parts are readily available, since the seals do not last forever.

 

[Riksha]

Signs of fluid seeping on the bottom of the handguards on my 07 and the 09 te450 (1100+ mi.)aren't confidence inspiring at all. The clutch reservoir went dry on the 07, the 09 has me concerned. The front brake res on the 07 went dry and didn't show any signs of leakage...

The cable on my 23 year old honda was replaced once because the outer sheath looked raggedy. It worked fine tho. The front brake fluid was brown and never leaked & works awesome still.

The hydraulics on the huskys worry me especially the clutch. I don't think I'll get 20+ years out of the huskys. Cables are so much more reliable as are nissin master cyls. I don't want a xl650, I dig my huskys still tho.

 

[cbreakin]

The hydraulics on the huskys worry me especially the clutch. I don't think I'll get 20+ years out of the huskys. Cables are so much more reliable as are nissin master cyls. I don't want a xl650, I dig my huskys still tho.

I completely agree with the above. I really like my Huskys but there are just some quirky things about them that make me say to myself "really?" The clutch being one of them, spinning inserts in the tank another, the lack of metal bushings on the side plastics where bolts go through, the cheesy "clips with bolts" on the radiator that spin and damage the fins if your not careful, and the fact they put real hose clamps where you can see them, and cheap clip on clamps where you cant, to name a few. It is a small price to pay for a really fun, easy to work on high performance bike...with a plate though!