"88 400WRLC with loose rear case sleeves

[ajcmbrown]

Hi all, I hope someone here can offer some sound advice on my current dilemma?
I have been running my bike in and found the chain was of the "self adjusting" type.......
Further investigation showed that if I grabbed the chain and pulled it up and down, the engine would move in the frame!

The sleeves in the rear of the cases have come loose and no amount of tightening will make it snug.

I know this isn't a particularly rare occurrence with this model/era of big Huskies, but what is the fix?

I can make up some oversized sleeves from a high quality alloy and either size them for an interference fit, or use some type of high tech bonding agent, what has worked for you guys?

I assume the cases will need to be split, even if they are then bolted back together to centre everything for boring a larger case hole, could it be done with the engine intact? I fear not.

This isn't going to be a daily or even weekly rider, probably a handful of Vinduro events a year, so probably no more than 100-200 kms (60-130 miles) per event, having said that I want the repair to be as permanent as possible so the next owner doesn't have to face the same dilemma.

The drive side case hole is so loose that the PO had wrapped the sleeve in what appears to be shim stock, it didn't work.

Pics to come, maybe even a short video to show how loose these are.

 

[oldbikedude]

I'm pretty sure one of the site sponsors on here sells over sized inserts. You need to check the cases for cracks. I hope someone on here can tell you who it is. This topic has come up on here so you might want to do a search. Good luck.

 

[ajcmbrown]

Thanks oldbikedude, I have searched by using "oversize case inserts", "flange sleeve", "loose case inserts" among many others, but have had little success finding anything, it may just be my search terms though.

 

[suprize]

look for stuck swingarm bolts, usually ends in a case inserts discussion.....

 

[ajcmbrown]

Swing arm bolt was nicely lubed.......obviously not always though!

 

[suprize]

search the forum for "stuck swingarm bolt" stories young Luke....there you may find the force of the stories on case inserts.....

 

[dukkman]

Cases have to be split as there is a big dowel hidden in the swingarm hole which gets in the way if you reem the hole.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/85-500-engine-vibration-cure.4955/page-3#post-252742

 

[ajcmbrown]

Thanks Mike, I suspected there might be something stopping it from being too easy! Oh well, at least I'll get a good look at the inside of my engine!

 

[hva-factory]

Yes, don't be tempted to fit a bigger sleeve into the not-so-round holes as you will for sure crack the casings. There is a hardened dowel between the 2 case halves that will stop you from doing this job without splitting the cases. I know it sounds horrendous, but with the engine out, it takes less than an hour to pull the motor apart - but do NOT hit the crank ends to remove the crank! If you need other engine parts too, contact me, as I have got a box of bushes we made up to service these...

Hope this helps!

Andy.

 

[ajcmbrown]

No hitting cranks here Andy, I've witnessed the results too many times!
Just to show the extent of the damage, here are a few pics and a video:

This is the sleeve on the drive side, nice work with the "shim"!

This is the opposite end, which has a taper cut into the flange, doesn't look like factory Husqvarna to me.

The opposite side (clutch side) sleeve looks factory but still has a little play.

Short video showing the snug fit!

 

[ruwfo]

Mc Master Carr sell tons of different sizes, I used some of these on my 510.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-sleeve-bearings/=zrgtgx

 

[hva-factory]

Be sure to mill the faces flat too as yours are well worn. Plus, make the heads of the bushes thicker to make the overall distance across the cases correct - or the frame will be well pulled in and the chain run won't be correct.

Fixable though.

Andy.

 

[ajcmbrown]

Will do Andy, do you think machining the sleeve in a high quality alloy would be suitable? I have a lathe/mill so I could turn up the sleeves to match the left side, but I don't think the mill head is accurate enough to mill the cases, I would have a machinist friend do that.
Would a 2 thou interference fit be sufficient?

 

[fran...k.]

I repaired that problem on a few engines without splitting the cases. Basicallly glue them in but at one time I could just buy new ones. I have a picture of what one looks like and one from a 420 auto as well.
http://www.frannyk.addr.com/cafehusky/caseinsertssidevie.JPG
Unfortunately the insides of the insert can get enlarged/worn and the frame can get the holes worn both bigger and and thinner. And the swingarm bolt can take abuse. 3m panel bond is what I used last time. I started out vacuum installing them but later just pushed them in but do it with the swingarm bolt. Even if the center locating pin is gone the repair still worked. If you split the cases chances are you will find more stuff to repair or replace. I have gone to the trouble of migrating the engine to a later four stroke frame which has real pockets to hold the ends of the swingarm pivot bolt. I think the linkage and the forces at play are involved here.

We have discussed this but I am not sure if everything is searchable as these fourms get crash and lost stuff or something along those lines.

 

[ajcmbrown]

You could be correct about the search function fran, I have searched with every search term I can think of, but only found the odd reference.

 

[hva-factory]

Will do Andy, do you think machining the sleeve in a high quality alloy would be suitable? I have a lathe/mill so I could turn up the sleeves to match the left side, but I don't think the mill head is accurate enough to mill the cases, I would have a machinist friend do that.
Would a 2 thou interference fit be sufficient?

OK - the best way to do it is to bolt the left hand casing to the table of a milling machine. Then with the dowel in the casing, clock the dowel to determine it's centre. Fit the other case half using the 6 screws and both dowels to align it. Then bore the hole out down as deep as the dowel. Remove the top casing and take out the dowel and then replace the casing, clocking it to get it back in alignment. Then, bore all the way through and ream if possible to whatever size works. Machine the faces flat. Then, yes make up bushes with a 2 thou (0.05mm) interference fit. Heat the cases and fit the bushes - but use steel - preferably hardened to do a really good job...

Yes - it is a bit of a ball ache to do****************************************

Andy.

 

[2premo]

OK - the best way to do it is to bolt the left hand casing to the table of a milling machine. Then with the dowel in the casing, clock the dowel to determine it's centre. Fit the other case half using the 6 screws and both dowels to align it. Then bore the hole out down as deep as the dowel. Remove the top casing and take out the dowel and then replace the casing, clocking it to get it back in alignment. Then, bore all the way through and ream if possible to whatever size works. Machine the faces flat. Then, yes make up bushes with a 2 thou (0.05mm) interference fit. Heat the cases and fit the bushes - but use steel - preferably hardened to do a really good job...

Yes - it is a bit of a ball ache to do

Andy.

thanks Andy,

that's the type of experience based info you look to find from someone with your experience
this is what makes places like this fun to visit
again thanks

 

[ajcmbrown]

OK - the best way to do it is to bolt the left hand casing to the table of a milling machine. Then with the dowel in the casing, clock the dowel to determine it's centre. Fit the other case half using the 6 screws and both dowels to align it. Then bore the hole out down as deep as the dowel. Remove the top casing and take out the dowel and then replace the casing, clocking it to get it back in alignment. Then, bore all the way through and ream if possible to whatever size works. Machine the faces flat. Then, yes make up bushes with a 2 thou (0.05mm) interference fit. Heat the cases and fit the bushes - but use steel - preferably hardened to do a really good job...

Yes - it is a bit of a ball ache to do

Andy.

That's great info Andy, thank you!
Tony.

 

[fran...k.]

My logic has been not to remove any material as it failed in the first place. I tried to discuss why the insert has a smaller diameter on the outer portion but no one really wanted to discuss. I think this may also be part of the problem. And yes if they are damaged the thickness across the back of the engine gets into the mix. On my 510 one was a little bad, I put some epoxy filler I got from an industrial safety place and borrowed an adjustable ream. This ream had a rod and tapered piece to make it go straight. That has never failed again. I also got some swingarm bolts (metal rods really) made up with just the threaded portion 14 mm, the rest being about 4 thousands more which will fit the swingarm bearing races and fit in the engine and just fit the amount of wear in the holes of the frame great. I think I got taken on the die to thread the thing, was before internet shopping. Do at least replace the bearing at the sprocket, one of the engines I repaired due to this issue had that bearing go bad and it kind of messed up half of that pocket.

 

[jimspac]

I had taken the time to measure the height of the sleeve faces from the case centerline on a good set of cases for an 82 250WR engine. I did find the right case height was higher then the left height. Do not assume symetrical or the engine will get offset to the side and not fit in the swingarm.