86 400 Enduro resurrection-help needed....Initial evaluation

[Bodger]

Hello, I am new here and have read a lot of good hard earned wisdom in these threads. I hope my thread here helps contribute to getting more than just mine back running and used again.

I am the proud and maybe lucky new owner of an 86 400WR Enduro that was idle for maybe ten years, stored outside at a remote ranch and under a shed roof.

I have owned many motorcycles for over 50 years, 50's and 60's Brit bikes, some Yamahas and Hondas, 4 and 2 cycle....so far my favorite steed was a 74 Honda XL350...very fun on the street as well as a good dependable transportation and also a good trail and dirt road bike...quiet, and easy to work on.

This is my first Swede and I really like it.

I look forward to riding a 30ish hp 230 pound bike...thinking of the 300+ pound British hulks I have thrown around it should be quite a revelation.


My plan is to do a slow costless evaluation and do no harm: so I won't be chucking gas in it and trying to start it until I am confident I have given the ring and piston and good soak.
So far everything I see is in useful state, that's good because I am not going to be spending much money or riding it hard until I can evaluate things and get it running...then I'll know what's what and how much to spend, or do I want to sell it on..

I haven't got the manuals yet, pullers, or spares of anything..I have just begun to sort it.

So far: engine turns over with some compression but I am not turning over any more until I get oil in the cylinder, so first problem: stuck spark plug. Two days soak with PB Blaster, a bit of a heave with a wrench, no go. Haven't tried heat yet, that would be next. Getting the seat and tank off would help that along too.

Second problem: maybe iffy transmission oil... I drained the transmission and at first it was plugged with something like a soggy bit of paper towel...and several drops of water. The water is expected to be found in almost sealed metal parts as the new cold air sucked back in at night loses it's bit of condensation..that's my theory and I'm sticking with it. It couldn't have been the quick power wash...anyway drained and (just) the oil put back in for now...
The problem was that the oil was a bit brownish, I hope that is some clutch debris rather than rust...so on the list To Do is remove the side cover to have a look see at the clutch and transmission...after I get the manual. And drain and change the oil, duh...but at least there was oil in there and just a couple of drops of water, I have seen much much worse!...here's hoping there is no rust, fingers crossed.

Third problem: getting the seat and tank off. With no manuals and an older computer I can't yet see the manuals or parts diagrams so nicely supplied here at Cafe Husky, yay!...so far all I have found is the one front tank bolt...so help a clueless Noob out ok?, and reveal to me the next place to find the seat and tank bolts?...and have a good snicker on me :>
Then I can have a go at the wiring and carb and get some of the leaves and dirt out.

Other things seen so far a list:
*Motoplat mini6 flywheel
*all levers intact and functional
*rusty front disc but hydraulics work, rear brake works.
*clutch cable tight but functional, no slack, also no wiggle felt in the arm/case bushing.
*so far no wiggle felt at the case rear when pulling the drive chain hard, seems solid.
*most hardware appears stock but rusty..and I am going to leave it like that, it will have it's well earned patina intact. I will probably freak out and use Ospho on the rust however, and keep it at bay until some big teardown fit seizes me.
*plastics are mostly intact but chipped, scratched, used, cracked, chunks ripped off, couple small holes in the seat cover..you know, used and useful.
Missing entirely is the air cleaner cover, replacement was made by my friend (previous owner) out of some building plastic, cleverly done and functional. New/used one would be nice but not strictly necessary yet.
*Mikuni carb is intact looking as are the rubber connectors, manifold etc. Slide is shiny and has no scratches, looks new, wiggles no worse than any other I have had.
*no gas (and gumbo, yay!) yet seen in the tank or fuel lines, have yet to drain the carb, so here's hoping it was empty when stored, but so far so good...there's is still hope the carb only needs a light flush rather than a teardown or replacement.
*transmission is still gummed up, currently soaking the lever bushes and when it gets off the truck (my workbench, haha), I will get more aggressive with the shifting..but before then I have to soak the piston and rings and change the oil...so later for that.
*front forks have deep rusty spots above the seals, maybe they leak, maybe not, for now: Ospho, sanding, epoxy filling and careful fairing might help keep some seal..but the forks work as found so far, rear shock is not frozen, have to wait and see on that too.
*frame has rusty spots, but no bodges or damage, there is a stout three point steel guard over the water pump
*hoses appear intact, radiators empty, corroded originals, have yet to fill them and look for leaks.
*fenders are intact, tank seems intact tho a bit stained, a few well earned scratches, badges intact but cracked.
* pipe is rusty, couple small dents, no repairs needed, enduro muffler intact..need to take it apart and check for live mice and packing needed? Good for me, I want an enduro, quieter than the scrambler/motocross pipe.
*front head lamp is glass and plastic only, chipped plastic, no bulb..I need to get the tank off and get proper manuals to see the electrics.

So...thanks for reading this far, I am lucky so far I think, I am liking this bike and hope it won't need expensive repairs to be rideable. My hot rod and racing days are past and until this gets completely redone I will take it easy..only when I have more time and experience with it will I spend the money to get it in perfect running order.
At some future dream stage when it gets running well and reliably I will be far from civilization and cell phones (and help) in the north California dirt roads.

I hope this continuing thread will be helpful to other Noobs like me that are just starting to bumble about with a vintage Husky. I will keep posting as I get along with it.

Ok, how do I get the gas tank and seat off now?...

let it rip,
Bodger

 

[fran...k.]

There are letters I have seen on similar forums. tltr or something like that I looked it up and it was too long to read. I read at least half of it.
Take two bolts off at the rear low of the seat, that should get the seat off. Then that one through bolt at the front is likely all that is needed. It has been a while I have either 87-88 or the air cooled dual shock but if you need help getting the tank off I just do not know what to say.

If there are or were not metal flakes stuck to the magnet on the drain plug you are off to a good start. I have seen tractor transmissions with lots of water in the oil but it sinks to the bottom and the gears were nice. The paint or whatever coating is on the magnesium cases can kind of deteriorate you can get a better idea when you take the clutch cover off. The head for that bike is real common if you ruin it trying to get the spark plug out it isn't all that much a problem. The cases and certain gears are the hard to get at reasonable cost items. The cylinder has an Iron liner, I do not think it corrodes as bad as steel.

 

[Bodger]

Thanks Fran...k, ...yeah, lol, well it was dark and I thought I'd wait til daylight.
I am trying to go slow and not miss something. I am also taking pictures, something I have never done with my bikes before. I have long learned to temper my enthusiasm and curiosity...instead of reducing it to boxes of bits, haha. The bike will be running sooner by going slow like this.
The water pump guard was a good soldier and took a shot. Now it is bent to the water pump housing which has a crack at a bolt.... so on the list to fix: heat, bend, reinstall...and new water pump cover.
Yes, and no metal bits on the drain plug, so yay for that!
Plug is still frozen, grr....it's a harsh lesson to remember to get a bit of oil on spark plug threads as a routine install practice. Not my fault this time.
Sorry the first post was too long, it's both and introduction as well as functioning as a diary for me, maybe someone else can get something from it too. Most of these threads rightly assume a degree of prior knowledge that I am short on Husqvarna wise...so maybe there are other noobs who are as well and we can learn together.
Thanks again.

 

[justintendo]

congrats on joining the husky world
first off, its not 30ish horsepower. the 79 wr250 husky had that power level. your bike in proper tune is a quick racebike, but still mellow in some ways.
i would recommend a good teardown to inspect, as running these bikes with a few bad parts can ruin other parts. these bikes are very very durable when maintained correctly and setup right however. these are not xl350s, they need to be right, or not run. thats not to say you cant trail ride the bike, huskys are good playbikes but they wont tolerate "ill get it running right later".

to remove the seat, remove the 2 bolts at the rear of the seat, just above the sidepanels. the seat has a "key hole" at he front of it that will require pushing down and pulling back on the whole seat to unlock it from the tank.

when you pull the clutch cover, do not remove the kicker or shifter, they stay in the cover until removal is needed.

be warned the engine block and sidecase are magnesium and very light but wont take abuse. very difficult to weld repair.

 

[2premo]

on the 86 tank
are you sure it's 86??
86 is a white tank, with black shrouds (air scoops)
the 87 is a black tank with white shrouds
86 tank has a through bolt below 87 tank has a bolt at the very front, accessed from the top

 

[justintendo]

good point, is there any way you post some pics of this bike?

 

[Bodger]

Hi justintendo, thanks for the advice, much appreciated.
The exhaust port three bolts are giving me gip, also I am currently soaking them in PB Blaster, heat going to be applied. If they don't come loose, I will weld the broken pipe bracket in place as best I can for now, drill out those screws and remove/retap them someday when the motor is on the as yet non-existent workbench (the current pu truck/workbench has to be repurposed...as a truck. I am moving soon.)
Good advice getting everything right, that's why I am trying to get oil in the cylinder to free the rings before any serious spinning. My goal for now to just to get it running if possible: just light use to gain a feel for any problems, and then a deeper rehab as needed. Money is still a problem...so fingers crossed...stuff like broken brackets(2) and funky hardware, cracked gas line, new air filter, oil changes..all ok...new cylinder piston, rod, and crank etc for example would be a problem, this is not to be a checkbook restoration :>

As to pictures, I am working on that too with sister's borrowed computer, a full glass of water in the newer one with the photos finished it off...but maybe, thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Bodger]

Hi 2Premo, thanks, that tank and seat is now off, with the advent of daylight I could just see the seat brackets hiding up under the fender, took the fender off, easy and clever, all very logical including the tank and seat/frame connection. I had a chuckle at the plumbers tape clamps up under there...very agricultural and practical.

The tank has a cross bolt at the front and the radiator shrouds are black.

Exhaust pipe bracket under the tank is broken, removed the rear cone on the muffler, packing intact, no mice inside either...(bummer, Kitty was waiting...)

I removed the exhaust pipe springs at the motor, I got the pipe forward 3/16" but not loose, guessing the three bolt bracket has to come off too...can't yet see parts or any manuals, grr...:>
If the pipe just slides out at the exhaust port? ....great, let me know but I am guessing it doesn't.

The three exhaust port bracket bolts have yet to give, patience needed...PB Blaster soak and heat was applied to the plug, no still soaking...patience.

If I can get the exhaust pipe loose I can gain access to oil/soak the ring and piston before I spin it and see what compression really is after the ring is loosened. The broken bracket will get tack welded in place later to get it properly in place, then removed to fully weld and grind the repair.

One way or another.

 

[2premo]

the pipe will just pull out
so yank on it
the exhaust bracket under the tank is a common item to crack or break
pictures will be interesting, especially the plumbers tape

 

[fran...k.]

The water pump guard I am pretty sure comes standard on the wr models but not on some others. That plastic or similar material water pump housing kind of gave me sticker shock as to the price of it. I found useable used ones. I think someone makes or made metal replacements. If the guard was bent chances are the forces on the locating pins for the water pump housing exceeded what they could take without something getting damaged.

I do not remove that metal piece from the front of the cylinder the exhaust pipe fits to without a reason. I know people take them off and sell them separately.

 

[2premo]

what area are you located

 

[dukkman]

The 86 Wr400 may not have 30ish hp but it is 95% guaranteed to be the nicest and most forgiving motor you have ever ridden with.
The 80/81 H6 360 Montessa could be better but they are rare as now.
You will not be sorry you fixed the old girl up.

 

[jo360]

Check threads helicoil or time sert as required and loctite things as you go, i welded a nut to one side of my exhaust bracket and made a aluminium bracket that clamps onto the main tube as i hate fiddling with nuts and bolts.do not try to bend the pipe as the metal is quite fragile esp near the connection point of the engine.if the engine was stored without inhibitor it will need a good look at the radiators and galleries.

 

[Bodger]

Justintendo asked about pictures..and until I can figure that bout, I found a great and informative restoration thread from member 86 400 XC that shows an 86 400 Cross Country restoration very much like my 400 Enduro. Mine is pretty much just like his 'before' pictures.
His inspiring ride movies he posts in the later pages are worth watching, I flinch when he goes by those fallen pointy dead trees and flips between trees that look about 2' apart.
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/1986-400-xc-rebuild.22960/

He also posted some great pictures of the Canadian Rockies late in this thread as well..on page 63!..geez!
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/post-up-pictures-of-your-vintage-husqvarna-bikes.1158/page-63

........

Thanks all for the advice about the pipe, much appreciated.

........

going now to remove the pipe and the water pump guard and water pump...and what a coincidence, the crease in the pipe lines up with the crease in the pump guard.
ouch!

......

thanks dukkman, for the encouragement.

......

2premmo, I am in socal central coast, and am moving to Humboldt County. I grew up in farm country upstate NY. I just found the registration from my first bike, a 1951 Royal Enfield 125cc. I and then my brother ran that around the neighborhood of several miles of old farm roads and fields.....never had a clutch, and oops!, the muffler never got put back on either. That bike ran and ran, my early experience with points and timing and spark plugs, also with the early outboard motors we had around.

 

[jimspac]

With the brownish oil you mentioned the usual cause is a PO using Prestone or similiar that was not rated for aluminum engines. The wall behind the impellor corrodes with the standard automotive coolant. The resulting breach allows coolant into the oil in worst case scenario. You will want to remove the impellor for inspection. I repaired a case that was bad enough to justify replacement with JB Weld and had the JB bored on location to recreate the impellor seal pocket. If JB is sanded or has the gloss removed, it is best to coat with epoxy to seal the JB against oil and coolant permeation.

 

[Bodger]

Exhaust pipe came right out as it should, all I needed was enough daylight :>, now to access the cylinder....sparky still well and truly stuck in. Hair blower not enough, plumber's torch next.

Bore and compression: boom, one rotation after a big shot of PB Blaster again compression restored, couldn't get a good picture, will try again tomorrow, but the piston looks good and no ridges or anything seen thru the exhaust port..so far so good, a couple of revs with the kick stater and my hand couldn't really push it thru, so yay!

Wiring now exposed, no kill button, a blue wire open ended and tucked in, I haven't pulled the bundle apart yet, might leave that until I see no spark, right now I am trying for ignition, stuck plug or not...Motorad red coil.

Water pump steel bracket shield: creased and touching the water pump housing which has a crack at the top cover screw, right on the loan path: finally after an impressive collection of rock dinged bolt de-bodgery I finally got the bolts out.
That needs a better mounting ..it attaches to a very goofy split tubing area under the clutch as well as a front engine mount bolt. Front engine mounts are pretty thin alum plate. The previous owner was pretty sure this started as a 250 and soon got a new motor, that might account for all the US hardware mixed in with metric. The split tubing design may have been a better design as any rocks bending a tab there might surely crack the weld and the thin frame...so I am guessing that was a good idea in response to such an uncontrolled point load with so much important bits behind the plate at risk..I like the steel bracket/rock plate better than the little tubing creations I have seen covering the water pump...especially as the bracket has such a serious crease in it..that rock would surely have taken the water pump if not the whole primary cases...it would save a long walk home, out of cell range etc etc...The underside washer impressively folded up shielding the bolt head..the bolt end only a mm from the case...hmmm.

To Do next:
*kick thru with another spark plug, see if I get a spark.

*remove and see the water pump, check what I can. Fill with correct coolant first to check for leaks..then remove the water pump and drain..the radiators are stamped '85' so maybe/probably original..the fins look hinky but no sign of any weepy leaks externally.
Jimspac has me twitching about possible corrosion, eek!..but has good advice as to a repair.

*look up whatever is the radiator mounts, they are all but two detached from whatever glued on rubber plugs...I just don't get it, haha...radiators held on with ty-wraps and water hoses. Pictures to follow, still tinkering..

*drain trans fully, slosh it around a little first, check again for no metal particles..first check showed no filings and chips but a bit of water and brownish tint to the oil. Then I'll overfill to get oil everywhere, tip bike over L and R...prop it up and see if the clutch and transmission can be coaxed to work...(bike still tied to the pu truck workbench) Drain the oil again and save it..I like ATF...so with dried out bearings and seals and clutch plates I think it worth it to get them nice and oily again.

*remove the primary cover leaving the levers on etc and have a first peep at the toothy bits, fingers crossed...but after I see if I can get it to shift up and down...haven't yet been able to...dum da dum dum.

*remove the carb..actually rotate it enough to get the drain plug out, run some gas thru it and see if anything comes out and proceed from there.

*definitely start reassembling it before Something Happens (and dam, doesn't it seem to tho?). I need to keep it as intact as I can, so far I have a lot of bits laying around, but pictures will maybe help.

If the water stays in, if the gas maybe gets thru the carb right, if the ignition sparks...maybe a test run soon...and preliminary evaluation will be done...sorta.
No real way to yet evaluate the shocks other than they don't seem to leak, the springs work..so later for that part. Brakes sorta work, cables sorta work..it will all get done :>...or not. I suppose in the interest of science I could coast downhill and thru a couple of neighbors driveways and yards to test the brakes and suspension...err...maybe better not. It's a long way back uphill. Or maybe it will start.

Thanks all,
Bodger

 

[dukkman]

My 85/400
Before

After [ wrong headlight]


The big girl was that good I registered her and trail rode all the local stuff to death.
You can buy some pretty good radiators out of China cheap though the brackets are a bit light.
You can also get rad mounts from China cheap off Ebay.
There is a common one that is 6mm male on one end and 6mm female on the other which works well.

 

[justintendo]

there are too many stories on here about bikes revving up and "running away" on here. mount a kill switch that visually kills spark before attempted to start it..
the 250 mounts the same way as the 400, that does not account for the standard hardware found in the mounts. nothing accounts for that, other than the moron that put them there.
i ask to see pics just because i am curious about your bike, i have owned a 400 for a good while and i have been riding its vitrual twin the 430 alot lately.
be careful roll starting the bike, it will put you on your head quickly if you arent familiar with it.

 

[Bodger]

very nice dukkman, looks good...I looked at my pictures and they are all to big and my old computer can't yet deal with resizing...not yet anyway.. I'll get it done :>

Yours looks like mine but for the lack of dirt, dents, cracks, rust, the disc brake and the factory muffler.

Very nice, thanks..
............................
Today's exciting discoveries:

* Carb flush: with the tank off and side panels and ex pipe..I could pivot it so I could access the drain plug and float bowl cover screws. I took the plug out and it was empty excpt for some gumbo at the very bottom.
I dripped carb cleaner into the hose end, it ran straight out, no sign of bits, gunk, buggers, gumbo of any kind....so yay! ...it looks like the carb was maybe empty after last running. The tank was empty but after ten years..no sign of the crusty gumbo usually seen in the bottoms of metal or plastic cans with gas left in them.
I put the plug back in and dripped more in carb cleaner in to soak at least the bottom of the jet at the bottom and the bottom of the float bowl. I have decided to not disassemble the carb any further unless it won't start.

* Transmission drain and flush: I had the drain out before, there was brownish color to the oil and a couple of drops of water and some gooey looking, well...slimy. So today I tipped the bike and drained the rest of the oil, a pretty good quantity, there was no further metal on the plug except for the initial grey flour. I am concluding at this point that except for a couple more slimy things and another drop of water, there is nothing bad to be found in the transmission...yet. I will overfill it with ATF to get at everything including the clutch plates, and hopefully the transmission will come to life.
So far the lever (soaking with PB Blaster) is still stiff and the gearset is showing as yet no ability to go in any gear much less shift. So soaking and rolling will hopefully loosen it up. But there is as yet no sign of anything bad from examination of the oil.
Tomorrow for the ATF etc.

* Compression check: I still haven't loosened the spark plug, still soaking. The exhaust pipe being off, I have sprayed the cylinder with PB Blaster and it immediately gained compression, and even more today after the overnight soak- now it pops at the exhaust port and I can't push it thru by hand..it has noticeably more compression, developing as much or more force than the 125s or 250s I have had. Yay!

* Water pump: I took it off and green shiny fluid drained out, no chunks, no impeller vanes, no corroded bits...and maybe a pint of it. Silicon, red seen on the gasket face of the case, none on the pump cover. Gasket looks intact.
No play was felt in the impeller bearing, it spins freely with the motor, no vanes missing, yay!. Tomorrow I'll put it back on and fill and check for radiator leaks. altho that's not necessary for a simple 'will it run, will it clank' test...The broken top bolt hole is cracked from the bolt hole to the edge but is very usable, I will epoxy the crack but with washers added to the new allen screws (they were rusty) it will be fine...and certainly not worth the $100 replacement...for now. Shook it and tipped it over..
Is that all the fluid in the motor or is there still fluid in the barrel cavities? Do I have to rotate the bike endwise to fully drain it?...haha.
There is an odd bolt tapped in to an odd spot in the right side of the barrel, I haven't looked for it in all pictures I have seen, in the few I have looked at do not have any bolts there.
It reminds me of the several sheet metal screws I put into the freeze plug in my Volvo when that corroded thru in a pinhole leak long ago...It worked for years...a real farmer's fix, my specialty.

So is there a coolant drain?

* 'It was running when it stopped!' I have seen that Yogi Berra-ism in Craigslist ads...but why this bike was parked 10 years ago my friend no longer remembers other than he was having trouble and debilitating pain starting all his bikes so he stopped riding.
When I took the gas tank off I took some pictures (still working on that problem, I still have to reduce their size to post...soon, soon).
In looking at the pictures I noticed a spot on the plug wire where it wrapped the frame. A very black spot ......with a greenish halo...haha, the plug wire had leaked continuously enough and long enough to get hot enough to melt the wire there, and corrode..yet it ran long enough to do so!
So there you are...more proof of the Deus ex machina some of us believe in, it never stranded him.

I am thinking this is one good horse.

Well, gotta go....rust never sleeps

Oily to bed, oily to rise.

Bodger

 

[Bodger]

Ha, I just read justintendo's comment, and thanks for it.

Pictures need to be unshrunkened... I have some software that will do it, I have to work on that tonight.

As to the kill switch, I found it! ...(see the previous comment about the plug wire)

To turn it off you just push on the tank with your left leg. Don't they all do that??...:>

Roll starting?..I can just imagine the swan dive over the bars on a youtube...ugh....I bump start almost everything, I road raced and never , well hardly ever use the kick start (if they even have one) on any bike anymore..especially after my 500 singles pegged my knee into the handlebar...and more than once. I plan for this to be a first kick starter...I can dream. Do people add compression releases?

As to the previous owner's motor swap...the original owner is a ranch living recluse...he's an artist, he don't look back.

De-bodgery is underway, altho I am too fond of people's get er done solutions I admit...

thanks, pictures a'coming.

Bodger