FE/FC 4cs Puzzle Solved

[.B2]

Quick run down, had 4 or 5 revalves done in the last few months using setups from different tuners with each one being an improvement on the last but still left thinking it could be better.

I settled on a setup using gold base valves, 1mm bleed in the mid & base adjusters, I was really happy with it on the trails but always felt let down on race day once I tried to push harder.
I've just tested my new setup & I can now sleep easy at night knowing its taken care of.
It's a dyno tested K-Tech setup paired up with a bladder conversion on the shock.

Forks; I'm 96kg stepping out of the shower & was running .48 springs which sounds correct, K-Tech specs say I needed 4.4 & once it was explained to me how all the bench testing results have shown that a Ste spring calculator won't cut it when working with 4cs it all made sense.
So gold valves, base adjusters & mid valves with bleed holes got thrown to the s#*t house & the K-tech specs using reb & comp on top went in.
All signs of the original 4cs demons are gone & now this thing handles everything & turns on a dime.

Shock; K-tech bladder conversion
The change this mod made was unbelievable!
This morning I hit sand whoops, hard pack whoops, soft whoops riddled with cap rock & it was just straight tracking with ease & confidence, even when I picked it up to race pace it didn't feel any harder than riding trail pace.
K-Tech use recommended dealers worldwide but supply the specs & final setup work to be carried out using their parts.
The setup I had wasn't bad, but the new one is awesome!

 

[ohmygewd]

Interesting...who's ya tuner .B2?

 

[.B2]

Interesting...who's ya tuner .B2?

Sent details via pm

 

[CastorCalogne2]

Any ball park figure on the cost ?

 

[ohmygewd]

Cheers Mate!!

 

[darren7878]

Ive just bought some used Ohlins. I'm not willing to throw money at multiple revavles.

I hated to the 4CS so much I'd stopped riding the bike.

Will just sell them on when I'm done or fit to the next bike. Job done.

 

[john01]

Hmmm my bike has been sitting too; thought it was sold. Was actually kicking around the idea of keeping it and sending out the 4CS junk. After reading this I'm scared again . I hope who ever decided to to approve the 4CS into production is sweeping floors now or at least out of the production approval loop! What a mess. Glad you have a solution for yours.

 

[bikesparky]

I'm not familiar with K-Tech on off road bikes but I have ridden road and track bikes with their stuff on it and I have always been positively impressed with it.
K-Tech do a lot of research and testing, which results in suspension kit well suited to the bike and rider and unlike some, that doesn't necessary mean it's rock hard and race only.
Top shelf kit if you ask me!

On the other hand I had my forks and shock rebuild by suspension matters in Oz and it turned out really good! Initially I changed the forks with the help of the local suspension guy to both compression at the bottom and rebound on top with the racetech bottom caps and a revalve. The forks worked better but as some here have found out there is still way for improvement.
While on the mend I decided to mail the whole lot to David at suspension matters to sort both forks and shock out.
All I can say is that his work is really good. The bike is transformed and tracks really well at speed and handles brilliantly on slow technical sections.
No harshness at all and big hits are absorbed in a controlled way. I did some fast runs and the bike shoots over roots, rocks, bumps in a way that inspires confidence. This instead of a feeling that things are about to spin out of control soon with the original 4CS.
In the really gnarly slow stuff I can now stand up on the bike like a trail rider instead of sitting down with feet out. I rode through a dry riverbed several times in spots where I would think twice about walking.
Again all hits are absorbed in a way so I can precisely steer the bike where it needs to go, the rear also constantly giving confidence with available grip.

I am aware the 4CS are shit from new but I also believe they can be made to work properly by a proper tuner. From what I knew, I always thought the rear was OK, I can tell you now it's not and it contributes to the misery by transferring shocks through the chassis to the front. The bike gets kicked up at the back and the front does a bad job absorbing this.
In my opinion and from how my bike handles now, both ends need to be looked at.
Keep in mind I don't go race pace and I'm sure the faster guys will find things that can be improved or don't suit them. For me it works and a big thanks to David as it made the bike ride like I wanted it to be from new.
Pitty it didn't came out of the box like that.
The price for this was very reasonable btw. Check out David's website, he has two clips on there in regards to front and back suspension and from the findings on my bike that's spot with what's wrong and how it's fixed.

 

[CastorCalogne2]

OK, so with hearing about all the negative press the 4cs are getting and the cost to resolve aftermarket;

- Will the manufacturer take this feedback on board and just recitify it to not lose sales of the 2017 incarnation ?

 

[bikesparky]

OK, so with hearing about all the negative press the 4cs are getting and the cost to resolve aftermarket;

- Will the manufacturer take this feedback on board and just recitify it to not lose sales of the 2017 incarnation ?

No they wont! They (KTM) knew about this for a few years, all they did was a revalve. In several tests by bike journos this issue was mentioned, non of the riders gelled with the forks.
In Oz this was why the Husky model mainly lost out to the KTM model in the tests due to the Husky having 4CS forks and the KTM not. (also the KTM model feels more powerful due to the airbox issue but a few holes fixes that)
Apparently all models will have the air fork next year (2017 models) as the Euro MX model has from 2016.

What hecks me off most is that the Husky model is sold at an higher price as having top shelf 4CS suspension!

 

[Motosportz]

I rode a few 2016 huskys at the NW gathering. I was not a great place to test suspension as a lot of it is smooth and flowing but thought they were noticeably better than older units and much more responsive to clickers. Maybe they have them sorted right before they switch over just like they did with PDS.

 

[robertaccio]

Puzzle Solved- problems eliminated

 

[bowser]

bikesparky what did Dave do to your forks? any new bits added or just revalve?

 

[bikesparky]

bikesparky what did Dave do to your forks? any new bits added or just revalve?

The forks already had the conversion to put compression at the bottom and rebound at the top. Dave fitted gold valves and his shim suggestion, also a service and general inspection.
The springs fit my weight so nothing changed there. I think for the finer details you have to ask him. I know he constantly evolves (as one should), I chap I know had his husaberg 4CS forks done there a year or 2 ago and it had different things done to it.

I have to say what he's done to the shock makes as much difference as having the forks sorted. I think it just adds workload to the opposite end of the bike if one end doesn't work properly.
It just feels more balanced now and that harsh kick in the back and landing on the front is gone.

 

[racemx904]

Theres a ton of companies that can revalve 4cs forks to work.... In fact most forks will need a revalve for most faster B and A riders....

Factory Connection did great.... perfect, NO but very very ridable..... $800
ZipTy- Good for the ones I rode (they werent sprung for me).... I think they are really cheap....

There are some companies that revalve but are very high.....

Are the forks bad enough to not buy the bike.... NO..... Do they need help.... YES..... but lets be honest most forks do need revalved....

The Key no matter who you use is be truly honest with the suspension guy.... So many think they know what they want but really dont and/or not explaining it correctly.... also a big problem is SO MANY guys think they know what the problem is but in actuality they dont have a clue....

Call the suspension guy..... describe exactly what its doing good and bad (make sure its acurate), describe exactly what you would like to see changed and/or how you want it to feel.... again make sure your skill level, weight, riding style, type of riding is acurate....

And if you start with one suspension guy dont switch willy nilly.... How is the 2nd guy going to get it right if he really dont know where he is starting.... switching in the middle just screws the 2nd guy and third guy and 4th....

 

[robertaccio]

Its a must do mod for 95% not the exact type or config, but set up for your personal comfort. suspension first all the other stuff later. Everyone is different.

 

[dfriz]

mx tech huck valves worked for me also flex bars

 

[bikesparky]

Are the forks bad enough to not buy the bike.... NO..... Do they need help.... YES..... but lets be honest most forks do need revalved....

The Key no matter who you use is be truly honest with the suspension guy.... So many think they know what they want but really dont and/or not explaining it correctly.... also a big problem is SO MANY guys think they know what the problem is but in actuality they dont have a clue....

Call the suspension guy..... describe exactly what its doing good and bad (make sure its acurate), describe exactly what you would like to see changed and/or how you want it to feel.... again make sure your skill level, weight, riding style, type of riding is acurate....

And if you start with one suspension guy dont switch willy nilly.... How is the 2nd guy going to get it right if he really dont know where he is starting.... switching in the middle just screws the 2nd guy and third guy and 4th....

Agree with you totally except the "most forks do need revalved" . Correct again but on the 4CS it's a bit more than a revalve isn't it.
A revalve cost on average a few hundreds, here to make it work you need completely disassemble the forks to get the one way valve out, fit new bottom caps and to do it right gold valves plus the revalve.
On top of that you already forked (pun) out more initially as the "husky has the top spec WP 4CS forks" (say this bit in dodgy salesman voice).

Here in most cases including parts and labour you look at closer to a grand!

 

[Tetley]

So reading the umpteenth thread on how bad 4CS are, who and what did KTM valve the 4CS for?
They have a large buget, and plenty of factory riders to do R&D, so it wasn't an accident they are valved the way they are. They must have been valved for a particular speed and style of riding, but what is it? As, especially the fast riders say they are so wrong.
Is this now a case that the 4CS are now so complicated, it's impossible to build a fork that works for everone, so a revalve is part of the buying process, and there is nothing actually wrong with 4CS, except they need to be tailored to the individual's riding style?

 

[reveille]

Pretty much why I'm leaning towards a 300 xc w VS the TE300. I can deal with open chamber forks any day and do the re-valves myself. I love my already expensively sorted FE501 but fool me once... If Husky steps up in the future with well sorted forks, I'll give it a go.