2008 Te 610 - Fuel Pump Won't Prime

[Tolga610]

I have another thread ab this but wanted to express the situation in a better way.

Bike was all good. I stalled the bike and then had this problem. I get the ignition on and have a blinking neutral light. I pulled the pump and hot wired it to see if it's a pump failure and it primes. I hear power relay click everytime i get the ignition on.

At first we measured the relays to see which one is fuel pump relay and found which one is it. There're three of them on the left side, we swapped one of the others but nothing came up. It still didn't fire up. We also checked the wires at the headlight side but nothing seems wrong.

Suddenly saw that loose battery terminal and nothing came to our mind but ECU death. I am super bummed for weeks now. Can you guys come with a help of solutions? What should i check for? Is there a possible way to find another ECU? My bike is nothing but a trash now.

 

[clydemule]

Sorry this reply is so late. I am not on the forums consistently.
I had something similar years ago on my TE510 and my 310.

I would check the pressure regulator. If the pressure regulator fails, the fuel pump just recirculates fuel back in the tank. The regulator is set to roughly 3 bar (don't totally remember). When the injector closes, the fuel has no where to go, so the regulator opens and fuel return to the tank.

If the diaphragm in the regulator ruptures, fuel just wants to go out the ruptured regulator not through the injector.

I am also fairly certain (and don't have the wiring diagram in front of me) that the fuel pump is controlled by the ECU. So if the ECU was dead you would have no fuel pump at all.

A way to check the fuel pump is to pull the fuel hose off the injector assembly, and attach a fuel gauge. When turn the key on and the fuel pump kicks on, you should see approx 3 bar on the gauge.

If you don't have a gauge, you can fold the hose back to crimp it shut or use pliers. If the regulator is bad, there will be no change in pitch from an open to closed hose. If the regulator is good, and you pinch it off, you will hear a definite change in pitch of the pump.

Note that even with a failed regulator, you will pump fuel out of the hose so be prepared with a bucket or something to not make a mess or fire hazard.

 

[Tolga610]

Sorry this reply is so late. I am not on the forums consistently.
I had something similar years ago on my TE510 and my 310.

I would check the pressure regulator. If the pressure regulator fails, the fuel pump just recirculates fuel back in the tank. The regulator is set to roughly 3 bar (don't totally remember). When the injector closes, the fuel has no where to go, so the regulator opens and fuel return to the tank.

If the diaphragm in the regulator ruptures, fuel just wants to go out the ruptured regulator not through the injector.

I am also fairly certain (and don't have the wiring diagram in front of me) that the fuel pump is controlled by the ECU. So if the ECU was dead you would have no fuel pump at all.

A way to check the fuel pump is to pull the fuel hose off the injector assembly, and attach a fuel gauge. When turn the key on and the fuel pump kicks on, you should see approx 3 bar on the gauge.

If you don't have a gauge, you can fold the hose back to crimp it shut or use pliers. If the regulator is bad, there will be no change in pitch from an open to closed hose. If the regulator is good, and you pinch it off, you will hear a definite change in pitch of the pump.

Note that even with a failed regulator, you will pump fuel out of the hose so be prepared with a bucket or something to not make a mess or fire hazard.

Thank you real much for having your time and trying to help me. I really apprecite it. Beg my ignorance please, but you were aware of that my pump doesn't kick in, right? That's not my main tongue, the pump kicked in only when we directly wired it to the battery. That's what I meant by hot-wiring it. The problem itself is the pump is not kicking in.

 

[ceevu]

Back to basics...
Does the fuel pump relay get +12v,and earth? does ecu send it trigger voltage when you turn on ignition (few seconds after every time you turn ign on) . Is your kill switch in off position? (i dont know if this prevents fuel pump also,or just starter but never hurts to check it... This tells you where your problem is.

 

[mysery1]

You might try running a jumper from the negative battery terminal to the case of the ECU.

 

[clydemule]

Thank you real much for having your time and trying to help me. I really apprecite it. Beg my ignorance please, but you were aware of that my pump doesn't kick in, right? That's not my main tongue, the pump kicked in only when we directly wired it to the battery. That's what I meant by hot-wiring it. The problem itself is the pump is not kicking in.

Sorry, missed that. I was reading another thread about something similar and got them crossed up. The blinking light neutral light may be a clue. I have seen it myself but from thr manual and what others have said the blinking neutral .eans the ECU has detected a fault. So there is probably some kind of fault that is keeping the pump from starting. It is unlikely that if the ECU is dead that it would send this fault signal.

As the previous poster suggested, you should continue troubleshooting up. You had a good start verifying the pump works. Now you should try and trigger the relay manually and see if the pump comes on.

With thr blinking neutral and the suspicion it is an ECU fault, you should see about making a diagnostic cable. If you don't have iBeat I posted a lengthy document in the EFI forum detailing how you can communicate with the ECU without iBeat software.

 

[Tolga610]

Back to basics...
Does the fuel pump relay get +12v,and earth? does ecu send it trigger voltage when you turn on ignition (few seconds after every time you turn ign on) . Is your kill switch in off position? (i dont know if this prevents fuel pump also,or just starter but never hurts to check it... This tells you where your problem is.

You might try running a jumper from the negative battery terminal to the case of the ECU.

Sorry, missed that. I was reading another thread about something similar and got them crossed up. The blinking light neutral light may be a clue. I have seen it myself but from thr manual and what others have said the blinking neutral .eans the ECU has detected a fault. So there is probably some kind of fault that is keeping the pump from starting. It is unlikely that if the ECU is dead that it would send this fault signal.

As the previous poster suggested, you should continue troubleshooting up. You had a good start verifying the pump works. Now you should try and trigger the relay manually and see if the pump comes on.

With thr blinking neutral and the suspicion it is an ECU fault, you should see about making a diagnostic cable. If you don't have iBeat I posted a lengthy document in the EFI forum detailing how you can communicate with the ECU without iBeat software.

thank you all individually. we measured the relays and the others to see if they get 12V or not and the answer was yes. IDK if how can I figure out if ECU sends trigger voltage but I am sure that there'S nothing wrong with the kill switch. I can both hear the fuel pump relay click when I turn the key on or turn the kill switch on. I feel like an ape, other than thank you real much for your help. I'll tell what you suggested to my repairman.

 

[Tolga610]

Sorry, missed that. I was reading another thread about something similar and got them crossed up. The blinking light neutral light may be a clue. I have seen it myself but from thr manual and what others have said the blinking neutral .eans the ECU has detected a fault. So there is probably some kind of fault that is keeping the pump from starting. It is unlikely that if the ECU is dead that it would send this fault signal.

As the previous poster suggested, you should continue troubleshooting up. You had a good start verifying the pump works. Now you should try and trigger the relay manually and see if the pump comes on.

With thr blinking neutral and the suspicion it is an ECU fault, you should see about making a diagnostic cable. If you don't have iBeat I posted a lengthy document in the EFI forum detailing how you can communicate with the ECU without iBeat software.

by the way, it doesn't always blinks, I remember we had a blinking neutral light when the case was new but it just doesn't blink all the time. I'll be looking up for the document that you have posted, hope we can figure out what it is, my dad keep saying it's most likely the ECU because of the loose battery terminal. let's see if that ape, me, is smart enough to solve that...

 

[ceevu]

"I can both hear the fuel pump relay click "
"So there is probably some kind of fault that is keeping the pump from starting. It is unlikely that if the ECU is dead that it would send this fault signal".

If wiring is good,and fp relay clicks,fuel pump will prime. ecu controls fp relay,and it has nothing in between relay and pump.

"pump doesn't kick in"
So you dont hear its priming when fp relay clicks. Wiring fault somewhere,or still bad pump. You hotwired it,how? using bikes wiring or in table? Doesnt 100% prove it is good,sometimes knocking might wake it up once or twice if its dying. Like old cars starter motors...Just to keep in mind if everything else is confirmed. (means you do get +12v AND earth in pumps connector also inside tank,not just outside connector. Even when there is some load in wiring,a halogen lamp for example in place of pump)


If your fuel pump relay clicks,then it is doing what it is suppous to do,and ecu is sending trigger to it. fp relay control works. Leaves +12v in relay,you said it is confirmed. And voltage also comes out,switch relays sort of confirms that.(not 100%) Wiring to pump,earth included would be mine next check. Easy to measure at fuel tank plug. remember that +12v without any current doesnt prove anything,but no voltage does. Heavily corroded wiring can seem to be just fine until you start asking some amperage to go too,then voltage would drop.
Forget the ecu fried mantra,please. There is absolutely nothing that points in that direction.









It is old bike,wiring has reached its end of life without service,so check every connection carefully, esp earth points. No green allowed inside connectors..

One tip that might not be this (depending what your measures show),but will not hurt either in long run...
Follow where battery earth meets bikes wiring earth.(630 connection was near starter motor where one leg went to engine,and wiring earth spliced to it) At mine it was badly corroded INSIDE connectors,and behaved like injection gone mad. Every single value in ibeat spiked randomly
when i was able to get it to run. Problem solved with wiring repair.

Blinking neutral might be just broken gear sensor wire etc not even remotely related to fuelpump. (when you hear fp relay clicks. It might prevent starting if your clutch lever sensor is bad too...but then it would not even try to start)
Ibeat could tell what it is,or then not. depends if it sees real reason,or just consequences.

 

[GreekMountains]

I know this is an old thread but the information is important for the knowledge base.
I had a TE with very similar electrical system.
If you do not hear the fuel pump priming then either there is no electricity getting to the fuel pump or the fuel pump or pressure regulator is faulty. End of (unless of course no petrol in the bike)
Remove tank +fuel pump. It's straightforward and easy . Test fuel pump using a simple battery set up and a pal to hold the wires from the battery to the pump while you hold the wires to the battery. Do not do this to the battery connected to the bike! remove it and use it remotely .
. I have used cheap branded replacement fuel pumps but they can fail after a while again.
It is especially important to start the bike from time to time if it is going to be left in the garage for long periods, once every couple of weeks would be good if you can manage. It is a known fact that they can seize up by non-use.
it is also worth changing the pressure regulator at the same time.
You can buy a pattern one relatively cheap. If the pressure regulator is on its way out the bike may not run as it is supposed to.
Obviously as you remove the petrol tank check the connector has not come loose under the petrol tank. As the OP mentioned you can take out one of the other relays to use to check the fuel pump relay is not dud before anything else.
Obviously check the fuses. Check the connections as best possible but don't start fiddling around with all kinds of remote ideas before checking the obvious things.

That's the way they do it and garages