1989 TC 510 B two 'parallel' restorations

[daftmate]

Hello everyone, first thread I've posted. Hopefully, although it's mostly about Italian made '89 TC's it can sit on the vintage restoration forum as this is where I've found the most useful info. Besides one of the engines looks to be an earlier Swedish one (see later). Everything will be coming to bits, I'll try to document both the restoration process and list the suppliers I use along the way.

Introduction

I used to ride an '89 TC 510 in the early nineties and eventually sold it to help pay for a new 1998 TE 610, which I still have. The '89 husky was a great piece of kit which never let me down (ignition stators apart...oh and the carb sometimes blowing off mid corner ...Oh and the seat coming off at Canada Heights and..). I later moved into twin shock racing and then into classic road bikes but never quite found a bike which I enjoyed riding as much as the '89 TC. During a recent visit to one of the classic bike shows, probably Telford, I got to sit on an '89 TC again and that was it I was hooked.

I didn't set out to buy two, it just happened that way. Both were purchased off ebay for not a lot of money but I wanted to fully restore a bike from scratch and saw little point in buying an expensive 'good' runner or a partly restored bike that looked nice but still needed going through. So the theory was to buy a rough but complete bike as the spend needed to get it A1 would be the same whatever the starting point. ie rebuild engine, rebuild wheels, new chains, sprockets, plastics, levers, cables etc. you get the idea. But I have a feeling I may have taken the theory a bit too far and my starting point is way too far down the curve. But once you start it's like the project gets a life of its own, you all know how it is. All logic and economic common sense is thrown out in the endless quest called 'yeah, I can fix that....'.

I have fully stripped both bikes, and have lots of photos and few questions which hopefully this excellent forum will find interesting.

So, off to the workshop:

Bike 1 Yellow frame in the photos

Husqvarna 510 TC '89B
Frame 9T*000079* Engine 2221 1212 Forks WP Inverted 11-89 TC/TX 510 89A

Bike is a runner but rattles well, best decribed as an overall loose feeling. Best strip it before I run it anymore, it leaks well from the centre cases so it must have oil in it. Have also seen it on previous post on Cafe Husky by 'cameron' who was the guy I bought it from. Very useful to look up previous posts by Cameron, now I know at least it has a new rod/rings and mains.

Bike 2 White frame in the photos

Husqvarna 510 TC '89B
Frame 9T*000116 Engine 2221 0298 Forks WP Inverted 88-09 TC/TX 510 89

A proper non runner, looks to be fairly thrown together and doesn't look to have run for a while. Can't select any gears, kickstart doesn't engage. Note to self, DO NOT GO ON EBAY AFTER THE PUB.

Research bit:

According to the workshop manuals:

89 A's go 9T000001 to 9T 000050
89 B's go 9T000053 to 9T 000252

So the frames are both 89B's but the engine nos look out of sync with the sequence of the frame nos. ie much older engine in the slightly younger frame.

I've posted overall pics of the bikes as started, on bike 2 I borrowed the side panels from bike 1.

Will post the strip photos next time but it looks already clear that the engine is 'earlier' - no cagiva symbols on castings, made in sweden in several places.

This won't be the fastest restoration however I have a vague target to get to a (any) motocross startline sometime this coming season. I hope to end up with two bikes but may have to compromise on that one depending on what I find during inspection of the bits now scattered round the workshop.

Responses appreciated on the likely vintage of the engine on the second bike.

Cheers

CView attachment 35989View attachment 35989 heers

 

[justintendo]

im sure you have lots of freshening and rebuilding to do but the bikes dont look too awfully bad...lots of parts to choice from!

 

[daftmate]

Progress on strip down on the white framed bike. This was the roughest of the two so I'd thought i'd get any learning out of the way on this one.



With the plastics off it looked like this, I will be trying to reinstate the standard exhaust with two mufflers down the left side.

Initial thoughts:

1. Subframe looks poorly modified with extra cross tubes and it lacks the two support brackets on the right hand for the airbox and number plate when compared to the yellow frame bike. Will need to mod back to standard or replace.
2. Swingarm has been badly welded and will need thorough inspection/sorting.
3. Main frame has 'lump' of plate welded in under clutch casing presumably for a prop stand. Extra backet above brake pedal, looks like it was modified to take a hydraulic master cylinder for a rear disc conversion at some stage.

Will strip to bare frame, use the subframe from the other bike and get them powder coated. Intend to use Classic Coatings at Grantham, UK. Not used them before but are local for me and have good website.

Will post rest of pictures of full strip next time. Engine looks nasty from outside, let's hope there's some bits inside.

DM

 

[daftmate]

Engine strip update on white framed bike:

Actually quite pleased with the condition (and no missing contents) could have been a lot worse. Some pictures first:


Top half of engine came apart easily especially as it was only loosely assembled with many rocker cover and head bolts hand tight. Lots of silicon sealant everywhere. By look of head internals and piston crown, engine has never run since last stripped/assembled. Ring gap was massive at around 1/4 inch, will need rebore and piston/ring set to match Bottom half was different story, everything was really tight and difficult to shift. Flywheel refused to shift for several days. I used the right puller and did everything up as tight as I dared as threads in flywheel for the puller were quite corroded. Just kept nipping it up a bit more twice a day until it finally on day three it popped.

Getting primary drive gear off crank was a nightmare, I used a good puller but gear was very tight and I have damaged the crank end which is slotted for the water pump drive. Can still get the nut on ok and the break is only on one half of the drive slot so think it will still drive the w/p shaft if I'm careful on assembly. Got it right on the second engine strip but was fed up all week at having made such a basic error. If I end up replacing the crank and can't get one with end drive for the w.pump I may think about shifting the w.pump up onto the cam drive. Anyone done this by transferring bits from a post 90 single cammer ?

Looked on the net for ages at various casing splitter devices and will probably try to get the motion pro one but it's expensive and can't find a UK seller. Any recommedations appreciated. So I just undid the all the casing bolts and GENTLY tapped on the case exteriors in the strongest areas I could find with a large hide mallet and the cases came apart quite easy. Not the right way I know. Internals look good with no major mechanical mayhem, ie missing teeth or dogs on gears. Crank stayed in the right hand case and left hand main stayed in case. Will try not to use hammer during reassembly, promise.

Getting all the bearings out the cases was fairly straightforward. I put case halves in an oven at 220 deg c and they drove out with a reasonably firm strike. The bearings feel quite rough, I will be replacing them all.

So engine is all down now, next steps are:

1. Get the bare casings cleaned (aquablast) and exterior surfaces powder coated black (anyone know if I should go gloss, satin or matt ?) planning to go with satin at the minute. Considering just boting all the empty cases together, blanking the holes and powder coating the whole lot as one assembly. Will discuss with the powder coating guy.

2. Cylinder barrel (why do you guys over the pond call them jugs, that's used for other entertainment items here), rebore and new piston to match. Intend to use Motosuplies in Carnforth UK. Anybody else used them or have alternate suggestions ? I have two spare used barrels with the bike so hopefully at least one will be salvagable.

3. Crank and rod, both small end and big end have some play. Will ask Motosupplies to replace rod and overhaul the crank.

4. Head/valves - have seen reports on the forum about two piece valves on early engines letting go and causing engine wrecks ? Unless I'm really sure about the quality of the existing valves the set will be replaced. Again get Motosupplies to check/recon head and probably fit new valves.

Sourcing bearings: can I get these at my local engineering bearing shop ? Otherwse I'll be visiting the specialist vintage husky sources in uK starting with Andy Elliott ? Still trying to identify year of engine manufacture, it's clearly as swedish engine so not contemporary with the italian frame. Engine number as stated in the first post on this thread, my best guess is 96/97 and will run with that when getting spares unless anyone advises different.

While the major engine bits are away will start sorting the cycle parts. Frame/subframe and footrests have just come back from Classic Coatings at Grantham and look great. Suspension WP inverted forks and ohlins shock will go off to Reactive suspension at York UK, they specialise in WP 4054 forks for evo bikes and have been recommeded by my mate.

Hopefully next post will see some shiny bits going back together. Dreaming of being on that start line at a favorite track with the sun turned on(but no dust...), meanwhile back to the cold workshop. See you in a couple of weeks.

 

[Wildebeest90210]

Popcorn ********************************************************************************!

 

[oldbikedude]

Pass the popcorn Beast...I'm watching too!

 

[suprize]

got one eye on this while watching the aussie cricket team wipe the floor with poms.....

hey all the main gearbox bearings should be SKF... down to the nearest bearing shop with your old ones

 

[hva-factory]

If you are in need of some pics - there are some pics of these with all the graphics on in our 'bikes for sale' section...

www.hva-factory.com

Andy

 

[daftmate]

If you are in need of some pics - there are some pics of these with all the graphics on in our 'bikes for sale' section...

www.hva-factory.com

Andy

Thanks Andy, nice pics and very useful visual guide. Both the '89's are nice bikes but I esp.like the '87 Thomas Gustavsson Factory R&D bike. Have already bought some bits from your site and think I may be buying some more before the end of this project ! Great to know these bikes are still supported.

 

[daftmate]

Inter post very early build crisis, guidance needed: !! Much tea drank and muttering ongoing, wife thinks I'm in a 'funny' mood....

Spent the week driving up and down the country dropping off engine and suspension parts at the specialists mentioned last week. My work strangely took me past most of the places I needed to drop the parts off at. Now nervously waiting for the first strip/inspect reports and the potential size of the bills. We'll see soon enough.

A have a little issue with the rear engine mounts and their fitting in the frame. I bolted the stripped out cases together,admittedly with no gasket and did a check fit in the freshly powder coated frame. Take a look at the pictures below:




You can see the 3-4mm gap on the left hand side. Both steel inserts in the cases have taken quite a beating and the left hand one has lost its outer flange completely. I plan to do the job 'properly' i.e. press out the inserts and replace but:

1. They are really 'in there' 30 years of corrosion may make getting them to shift tough. Looks like previous owners have also had a good go before me. I have a decent hydraulic press, will turn up a close fitting mandrel and heat up the casings. But I'm worried how to mount the half case in the press to get a clean shove without overstressing the casing. Any forum members experience with this job appreciated.

2. I could just bottle out, leave the damaged inserts in and a make spacer washer for left hand side. Not right but only my best mates would delight in pointing it out.

3. I don't seem to be find an easy source for replacment inserts. Checked the parts nos on HVA no joy (but will follow up with a mail to Andy). Could turn my own but the jobs starting to get a bit big and I've other items to get on with.

Overall if I can get some positive feedback from the forum that the rear inserts are not too bad to remove I'll go that way. If I hear too many horror stories then a decent bodge may be a better route.

Once the cases are sorted then they will be power coated and new bearings fitted ready to build up the bottom end.

Looking forward to hearing some replies, DM.

PS Doesn't the frame look good, my thanks to Classic Coatings Grantham for the PC.

 

[suprize]

I fear for your powder coat while you sort this out... did you have dummy bolts in all the threads and covers on coil mounts to keep a good earth

 

[daftmate]

I fear for your powder coat while you sort this out... did you have dummy bolts in all the threads and covers on coil mounts to keep a good earth

Me too, not sure how tight a fit the back engine mount spacers should be in the frame? Will try to get a nice snug sliding fit so that the frame plate sides are not pulled in when the swingarm bolts pulled up. May well take a dremmel to the area immediatley around the engine mount so I get good metal to metal contact first time. It's going to wear anyway.

Dummy bolts yes and ran a tap back through the holes to make sure after PC but regarding the coil mount no I didn't cover it up. Here's a picture of it pre dismantling/coating. Can't see any metal contact around the coil bolt holes themselves but I assume from your repsonse I will need to figure out a way to get a decent electrical earth on the coil. Thanks for the tip. PS Don't intend to refit the voltage regulator as will not be running any lights and just need ignition.

 

[Wildebeest90210]

Those rear mounts are beat up. Without a closer look my thoughts would be to drop a cutter on them on the mill to get a flat surface then shim. Difficult call, how much damage could you do trying to get the inserts out. Could you take out a whole lot of magnesium with them? Good luck.

 

[suprize]

machine back to flat, makeup spacers and weld onto inserts? fairly precise work. if the inserts come out ok, they would be a simple thing to turn up new ones

 

[adam6402]

Don't even waste your time hoping that somehow those insets are useable. Like the bearings, heat does wonder on these cases. I cooked my split cases at 300 degrees for 30 minutes or so and was able to get them out without too much trouble.

 

[suprize]

that sounds like the go! put on the chefs hat....

 

[daftmate]

Don't even waste your time hoping that somehow those insets are useable. Like the bearings, heat does wonder on these cases. I cooked my split cases at 300 degrees for 30 minutes or so and was able to get them out without too much trouble.

Hi Adam, that's just the feedback I needed, I used heat to take the bearings out but can only get to 220 deg . Hang on, I guess your in F ? Wifes oven is in C. That's temp not key.

Where do you source your replacement inserts ? or did you make your own ?

Will give it a go at the weekend and let you know the results.

DM

 

[hva-factory]

Yes, heat em up and knock out the old spacers. Get someone to turn you up some new ones and press them in...

Andy.

 

[adam6402]

Your best bet for replacement inserts would probably be huskydoggg.com, he has a large pile of husky carcasses. Otherwise, you will need to find a machine shop.

Honestly, I was so pissed off at the time I probably cooked the cases at closer to 400F and probably longer much longer than 30 min. Fortunately my wife was gone at the time because they were dirty cases and she would not have appreciated the smell. My inserts were completely seized to the swing arm bolt. I completely mangled the inserts along the way freeing one seized end so that I could split the cases. It was quite the ordeal. Luckily you don't have that problem. After I had it all torn apart, I noticed damage to the right hand case I hadn't seen before, although fixable, just haven't the need for the cases, was really more interested in the condition of the tranny at the time and possible use for it elsewhere.

Anyway, good luck with your projects!

 

[adam6402]

This is what was left of my swingarm bolt and inserts!