'09 610.. stranded with a stuffed battery.

[BrandonR]

Yesterday on the way home from a group ride the stock battery in my 610 crapped out 50 miles from home.

After going through the process of getting home, (hitchhiking part way then calling a friend who got their neighbor to drive me the rest of the way.) then driving back to pick up the bike and finally getting home 6hours later I'm thinking there must be some way to get the bike to run without a battery.

I had the opportunity to jumpstart it but as soon as the jumper cables came off it started misbehaving and would have just shut down again in short order. Disconnecting the battery was even worse so I'm wondering if a capacitor could have kept the bike running with the battery disconnected. I'm thinking disconnect the battery, jump start it and not shut off till I get to a safe place to shut down.

Thoughts?

 

[Coffee]

There are many factors to consider. #1 is that the battery is an electronic filter for the voltage spikes from the charging system. A battery is a magnificent filter.

I would not recommend installing a capacitor to anyone that lacks the background to do the proper testing, nor would I ever consider disconnecting a battery from an efi bike while it was running. The voltage spikes could be huge.

You could get a 'battery eliminator', my understanding is those are effectively a well designed filter (capacitor) like you are asking about installing... but with the bike you have you need voltage to run the fuel pump or it will not start.

What is much much easier is a spare battery, it does not need to be big. Turn Tech 2.5 or one of the new Super B batteries that should arrive in the usa soon.

 

[BrandonR]

There are many factors to consider. #1 is that the battery is an electronic filter for the voltage spikes from the charging system. A battery is a magnificent filter.

I would not recommend installing a capacitor to anyone that lacks the background to do the proper testing, nor would I ever consider disconnecting a battery from an efi bike while it was running. The voltage spikes could be huge.

You could get a 'battery eliminator', my understanding is those are effectively a well designed filter (capacitor) like you are asking about installing... but with the bike you have you need voltage to run the fuel pump or it will not start.

What is much much easier is a spare battery, it does not need to be big. Turn Tech 2.5 or one of the new Super B batteries that should arrive in the usa soon.

A battery eliminator is only about $35 there's lots of EFI snowmobiles out there without batteries so obviously it can be done with the right design. So what I'm really wondering is if a battery eliminator would adequately filter/buffer the electrical system. Wired in parallel with the battery a capacitor would be harmless and wouldn't be damaged by a bad battery, a second battery could easily be damaged by it's partner dieing without an isolator of some sort so you'd just end up with two bad batteries instead of one.

I'm not talking about kickstarting. My idea is that initial startup would come from a jumpstart once it's running the stator would provide power. Getting someone to give you a jump is a lot easier than getting a ride home then returning later with a truck. If the bike would even limp along without a battery that's better than being stranded but my bike just shut down in the middle of the road (Bad battery pulls down the stator output voltage so you can't run with a bad battery but it also can't run without the buffer effect of the battery)

 

[Coffee]

A battery eliminator is only about $35 there's lots of EFI snowmobiles out there without batteries

I don't know anything specific about snowmobiles except 30+ years ago when I last rode them they were a whole lot of fun

so obviously it can be done with the right design. So what I'm really wondering is if a battery eliminator would adequately filter/buffer the electrical system.

And this was my entire point. Electrical charging systems, especially stators/magnetos, will put out *huge* electrical spikes that could harm the other components. I am not saying they will be harmed, but they certainly could. Electronic component designers assume max voltage when they design things like efi modules, or even light bulbs. I am not sure what they are using these days but it used to be 40v whereas a stator could put out 100's of volts. I wanted everyone reading this thread to have fair warning before they started experimenting on their own bike.

Wired in parallel with the battery a capacitor would be harmless and wouldn't be damaged by a bad battery,

100% agree

a second battery could easily be damaged by it's partner dieing without an isolator of some sort so you'd just end up with two bad batteries instead of one.

2 dead batteries yes, it depends on what is going on, but the vast majority of the time there would be no damage. Large trucks, RVs, boats, etc use batteries in parallel.

My idea, which I should have been more clear on, was to have a spare battery electrically disconnected, possibly in a backpack.

I'm not talking about kickstarting. My idea is that initial startup would come from a jumpstart once it's running the stator would provide power. Getting someone to give you a jump is a lot easier than getting a ride home then returning later with a truck. If the bike would even limp along without a battery that's better than being stranded but my bike just shut down in the middle of the road (Bad battery pulls down the stator output voltage so you can't run with a bad battery but it also can't run without the buffer effect of the battery)

If the issue is simple matter of having a dead battery then your bike could have been jumpstarted and you could have ridden home. My guess would be, for whatever reason, your charging system is not working and a spare battery could allow you to get to civilization.

If there is enough power from your stator to run the fuel pump and light, and whatever else you bike is consuming, and everything else is ok such as no fuses blown, your bike would not have died in the first place. So I really don't think in your particular situation any battery eliminator/capacitor setup would have helped.

I am quite curious what happened to your bike, I hope you can give us an update when you find out.

 

[Motosportz]

I believe the system in the snowmobiles is different. The husky will not start without good current to the fuel pump. I think

 

[BrandonR]

As near as I can tell the battery has a bad cell or two, it won't take a charge. So in the bike it didn't matter how much power the stator could produce it couldn't overcome the voltage drop at the battery, the computer sees the low voltage and shuts down.

I hooked the bike up to a RV battery at home yesterday and it seems to be charging fine (13.something volts when running).

The really annoying thing is that this is the second time this year I've been stranded by a breakdown, the first was a blown engine in my old Honda so there was nothing I could do about that but this seems like there must be an easy workaround.

 

[willie]

Sounds like you've just had some bad luck! Replace the battery with a good quality one and forget about it! Batteries today are extremely reliable and the chances of it repeating the same problem are slim. You can drive yourself bonkers thinking about different scenarios and how to get around them but this usually makes things unnecessarily complicated. Redundancy is a bitch!

 

[BrandonR]

I believe the system in the snowmobiles is different. The husky will not start without good current to the fuel pump. I think

On the snowmobiles it works like this:
Pull the starter cord a couple times to charge the capacitor which gives enough power to run the fuel pump for a few seconds then flip the switch and give it another pull to start.

In my case I was in a situation where a good Samaritan was willing to offer a jump start so there was plenty of power available to start the bike but as soon as the jumper cables were removed the bad battery made it shut down again.

Related...

After making some calls it looks like the only good Roadside assistance solution is a AAA+RV membership. I also have a camper so I called Good Sam ERS and Coach-Net but they both offer only "to the nearest repair facility" even if it isn't open for 3 days, or it's further from home. AAA+RV offers 100 miles to the destination of choice (Home in my case)

 

[Motosportz]

Seems extreme but a turntech bat is small and light. Pack one if you think you need to.

 

[Coffee]

As near as I can tell the battery has a bad cell or two, it won't take a charge. So in the bike it didn't matter how much power the stator could produce it couldn't overcome the voltage drop at the battery, the computer sees the low voltage and shuts down.

Do you have a battery charger? Maybe a battery tender?

If one of the 6 cells is shorted then while a battery charger is attached the voltage should be about 11.5 V.

Quite frankly I am baffled. The 610 puts out a huge amount of electrical power compared to the other ones.

 

[ghte]

Batteries can be fickle. They can last years or crap out 2 weeks after purchase. I really think just a replacement battery is what you need. the likely hood of another dud in succession is small.

 

[BrandonR]

Do you have a battery charger? Maybe a battery tender?

If one of the 6 cells is shorted then while a battery charger is attached the voltage should be about 11.5 V.

Quite frankly I am baffled. The 610 puts out a huge amount of electrical power compared to the other ones.

I hooked it up to my RV batteries, let it sit for a half hour or so then disconnected it and watched the voltage drop to about 8 volts in about 30 seconds with no load.

An idea I had was to hook up one of the 13.2volt NiMh battery packs I have for my HID bicycle lights but I found that the one pack I have that I could adapt the connector from is bad.. I just ordered a new one an hour ago. When it comes in I'm going to try connecting it to a power port then starting the bike with a jump and see how it reacts to the alternate power source. The battery is small and light enough to just carry in my camelback just in case if it works.

I don't think I mentioned it but I bought the bike new in March. I talked to the dealer (Bills in Salem) and it looks like there's a 6 month warranty on the battery so it should be covered.

 

[denmcken]

I just had the same problem with my 09. I'm gonna try a gel battery....

 

[BrandonR]

Bill gave me a replacement battery and suggested keeping a small gel cell in your pack when you're out in the boonies. The backup only needs to have enough power for the fuel pump because you can bump start the bike and once it's going you're good.

Something like this:
http://www.batterymart.com/p-12v-1_3ah-sealed-lead-acid-battery.html

 

[Navaho6]

Bill gave me a replacement battery and suggested keeping a small gel cell in your pack when you're out in the boonies. The backup only needs to have enough power for the fuel pump because you can bump start the bike and once it's going you're good.

Something like this:
http://www.batterymart.com/p-12v-1_3ah-sealed-lead-acid-battery.html

Good idea for those longer trips. Of all the bikes I've owned over the past 20 years, I'm lucky to have never needed a new battery. But if it happens out in the middle of BFE, a spare would save the day. Recently got stranded close to home and had to hitch hike. Only 2 miles back in the woods and still took 4 hours to get the bike back home.

 

[BrandonR]

I've got a simple idea for a reserve battery setup I'm going to build, it should end up being a simple solution.

 

[oregonsage]

I've got a simple idea for a reserve battery setup I'm going to build, it should end up being a simple solution.

 

[chriszanger]

I had the same problem with my 09 after 300 miles - i replaced the battery to a gell, and haven't had any problems, since then. Is suspect a bad batch of batteries in 09.

 

[BrandonR]

Oregonsage and I both have good reason for having a reliable backup since we find ourselves many miles from civilization on a regular basis here in Oregon. Even with a "reliable" battery shit happens and since it is so absolutely critical I'm not heading too far into the back country again without some form of backup.

Just for giggles I wired up a pack of 8 AA alkalines (12 volts) and hooked it up, that was enough power to run the computer and fuel pump while I bump started the bike, it just goes to show how little is needed.

 

[tlking6]

I had the same problem with my 09 after 300 miles - i replaced the battery to a gell, and haven't had any problems, since then. Is suspect a bad batch of batteries in 09.

My original 08 battery crapped out two weeks out of the gate. Plenty of posts talking about the stock batteries not holding up.