Will a 06 TE450 start with a bad stator? Only getting a momentary spark...

[Jornum1]

My Husky has been sitting for a few months. Last time I used it, its fired up fine with a jump from my Schumacher charger(battery was about shot). I try to start her up the other day(with a new battery) and all I get is a momentary spark, then nothing.

I have been reading through posts and the workshop manual testing everything I can.
So I go through the usual troubleshooting steps.

New plug, coil, tps, gear position all test good.

Testing the stator I was a little confused. Charge and lamp tests are in the normal range. The exciter I get nothing. So I am guessing I have a dead stator correct?

My question is, shouldnt the bike still operate with a bad stator, just not charge? I know both my Buell street bikes will.
I am trying to pinpoint if my cdi is bad as well.
Has anyone ever heard of just a momentary spark, then nothing? Just wondering if it has happened to anyone else and what the solution ended up being.

If I have to order parts, I'd like to knock them out all at once.

Thanks in advance.

 

[7point62]

Stators can be a bit vexing. On dirt bikes (and CDI ignitions in general) the charging / lighting part and the ignition part of the generator are totally separate. One part can fail and the other part will work perfectly. Your Buell (which model btw?) doubtless has an "ignitor" type ignition (it may be called something else in the USA) where the generator just charges the battery and the sparks are derived from the battery voltage.

I don't have the manual in front of me (and I've never had cause to work on my Husky's ignition), but on a CDI bike there are two coils to test - the exciter (which provides the power for the spark) and the pulser (which provides the timing information). the exciter coil isn't like the lighting coils either - the windings are made of thinner wire and their working voltage is rather higher so static tests with a meter might not give the whole story. It's possible that if the coil reads open circuit that there's a crack in the wire, or a solder joint that's gone bad, but when you spin the motor over the 200-ish volts the exciter makes kind of struggles through occasionally. However, if you're testing with a resistance meter and you're getting an open circuit then it's safe to say that part is duff. Check the lead out wires and connector though - the problem might not be in the stator itself.

Finally, it's possible for metal to build up in the generator rotor (it's magnetic, after all) and this has been known to damage stators, so if the stator turns out to be bad then give the rotor a wipe out with clean shop towel. It's a good idea to do this now and again anyway.

It's just possible to have a bad stator and CDI (this recently happened to a friend with a CCM) and the only practical way to fault-find at home is to replace with known good items. Still, if the stator measures bad then just start with that and hope for the best as I don't imagine that CDI boxes are cheap. Maybe consider getting the stator rewound instead of replacement - I'm sure that a U.S. forum member can recommend a company that will do a top job.

Hope it works out ok - let us know how it's going.

 

[columbia510]

I once read on CafeHusky where George at Up-tite said that the inside of the ignition cover gets a thick black coat of grime that will give intermittent problems that you are describing.

 

[Jornum1]

Thanks so much 7point, that is what I was hoping to hear.

I appreciate the info on the ignition system. I am new to dirt bikes, or at least working on them. I was not aware that the exciter directly supplies the power to the coil.

I had a x1 briefly, and still have a 07xb12ss(in pieces), and a 08 1125r(with a uly tail and cr front).

On all of those the stator can fail and the bike will still run off the battery. All three are EFI though as well.


Perhaps I may just have to clean it up as I have read and columbia stated. If the stator is no good, I have 2 stators which I got from the PO when I bought the bike. I have not confirmed if they are good though.

Thanks again for the info, understanding how your machine works helps so much in troubleshooting. Just reading the workshop manual only goes so far.

I will let you know what I find.

Ja

 

[7point62]

Good luck bro - remember that if those resistances are way out of spec then it's bad (a mechanical failure), but if it measures good then it may still be problematic, but the problem might not show up with the meter. Sometimes a burst with a heat gun / freeze spray is the only way to make a stator give up it's secrets. Sometmes even that doesn't work and it actually only demonstrates that it's a dud when you try to start the bike.

Make sure also that there's clean metal to metal contact between the ignition coil's iron core and the bike's frame. Check the kill switch isn't full of water too. I forgot to mention these before.

Yeh, I love Buells btw!

 

[Jornum1]

Checked the stator, there was a lot of grey build up on the inside of the rotor. I cant see any physical damage to the stator or windings.

Strange findings though.
Before I opened it up. I was not getting a resistance reading at all on the exciter. No continuity at all(I suppose because it was so dirty). Once I cleaned it I do, but its fully open. Or at least it reads 0.01 at 20k.
According the manual it should read 12,7 +/- 15% So I am not even close.

So that means my stator is dead then?

I actually only have 1 spare stator, and 2 covers. The spare looks a little different though, with a different 6 pin connector. I know the PO had mixed and matched a tc, and te. He was running no e start and no lights ect when I bought it. I had to swap in the TE harness because he had used to TC on it I believe. Its been 2 years and I honestly cant remember though!

 

[7point62]

Strange findings though.
Before I opened it up. I was not getting a resistance reading at all on the exciter. No continuity at all(I suppose because it was so dirty). Once I cleaned it I do, but its fully open. Or at least it reads 0.01 at 20k.
According the manual it should read 12,7 +/- 15% So I am not even close.

So that means my stator is dead then?

No! It means we have to check what scale you're using for the meter and use the one most appropriate for the 12.7 ohm resistance we're trying to measure. I'm assuming you've set the selector on the meter to 20k - this would indicate the highest figure it could read at that setting is 20kilo ohms, which is shorthand for 20,000 ohms. Obviously 12.7 is a tiny fraction of 20,000 so the meter would struggle to give an accurate reading - actually 0.01k ohms = 0.01 x 1000 = 10, so it's not that far off, but we need a more accurate reading. Look at the panel on the meter and choose the first resistance scale that is larger than your 12.7 spec - ie 20 or 200 and measure again. Post a picture of your meter if you're unsure.

I'm a bit worried that your first reading was infinity asd your second gave continuity though. Maybe it was just a measuring thing, but it is a bit odd. Give all the wires a wiggle, tap the metal base carefully with a screwdriver handle and maybe warm it gently with a heat gun if you have one. Sometimes stators go intermittent. You may want to recruit another pair of hands to help with this.

Unfortunately the TC stator is different - it doesn't have a winding to power the lights.

Hope this helps.

Edit: I just dug out my manual and while it gives a spec of 12.7 ohms for the exciter coil (the black/red and red/white wires) I can't find a spec for the pulser coil ( the solid red and solid green wires).. It prolly should be a few tens of ohms. Will dig a bit deeper.

 

[Jornum1]

yeah I am a idiot ;-)

Its been a few years since I had to test resistance with a meter(when my stator went on my xb actually).

I didnt have my settings right. I am going to go back over everything and see.
I will check back in a bit once I get a few minutes.

 

[R_Little]

Can I ask a related question?

I recently had a flywheel spin on my '10 TE250. I swapped another undamamged flywheel on.

I was running it W/O the headlight for a while and the blue light on the dash flashed a bit when rolling off the throttle.
I put the headlight back on and the flashing stopped. I-Beat showed no faults and it runs fine. I'm guessing the voltage peaked when the throttle was rolled off w/o the headlight running but I'm not really sure. I noticed when checking the Bat voltage with the bike running the voltage went up at idle and down when reved up. Does that make sense?

I'm curious. Husky, for whatever reason sells the flywheel and the stator as a kit for like $700. Why might that be?
Are the stators and flywheels matched for output or something?

Thanks!

 

[7point62]

Hi R_Little: I have to defer to someone who knows the newer Huskies better than me (I know that US Huskies can have slightly different wiring too). If US spec is "headlight always on" then running without would give the regulator a bit more work to do, maybe causing transient spikes. Or it might just be an unwitting design feature, or a "hey, your headlight's not working" warning, Italian style.

Re the battery thing: it's not unusual to see and it's fine!

Re the stator /flywheel thing. Yeah, that's odd. Can't think of a sensible explanation for that. I can't imagine it's for sizing, otherwise anyone who's suffered main bearing failure would demolish their generator. Output? Mebbe, but magnets age and one stator is pretty much the same as the next as long as they've got the same number of turns on the windings. I'm beat!

 

[Jornum1]

Success! When I originally tested the coil, I cleaned the mounting areas on the coil but not the frame. You guys know how the coil is stuffed up there, I just forgot. I looked up there after testing the coil again just to make sure and both points were rusted over pretty good. Cleaned them up and I have a good strong spark now!
Now I need oil!

Big thanks to you 7point! I really appreciate your help.

R_little, you got me? Thats over my head, maybe someone else can chime in. I am still wrapping my head around all this still.
I dont know why husky would do that, but I have swapped stators on street bikes before and not swapped the rotor with no issues.

 

[7point62]

Yay, that's great news! I did mention the coil mounts in post #5

God forbid that you ever have to take the generator cover (or clutch cover) off again, but if there is a next time just lean the bike over against something stable and non-scratchy and you won't lose the oil. Just clean the area around the casing before you remove it and you're good to go.

I'm talking to myself here - by now Jornum1 will be outside, wrenching and riding!

 

[Jornum1]

I wish! I have to get out and find some oil first and some fuel.

I actually am going to pull the clutch while I am at it and see if I can figure out whats causing the whine I have. I get a whine whenever I disengage the clutch. Once its in gear its fine, and seems to operate fine. But I get a loud low pitched whine when its pulled in. Only in gear as well if I remember correctly. Maybe I will start it up first and see if I can get a good sound clip to post up.
Does the leaning over trick work for the clutch as well?

 

[R_Little]

Hi R_Little: I have to defer to someone who knows the newer Huskies better than me (I know that US Huskies can have slightly different wiring too). If US spec is "headlight always on" then running without would give the regulator a bit more work to do, maybe causing transient spikes. Or it might just be an unwitting design feature, or a "hey, your headlight's not working" warning, Italian style.

Re the battery thing: it's not unusual to see and it's fine!

Re the stator /flywheel thing. Yeah, that's odd. Can't think of a sensible explanation for that. I can't imagine it's for sizing, otherwise anyone who's suffered main bearing failure would demolish their generator. Output? Mebbe, but magnets age and one stator is pretty much the same as the next as long as they've got the same number of turns on the windings. I'm beat!

No it is not for sizing...they both measure the same within .005 or so.

Who knows, it seems to be working fine.

 

[R_Little]

I wish! I have to get out and find some oil first and some fuel.

I actually am going to pull the clutch while I am at it and see if I can figure out whats causing the whine I have. I get a whine whenever I disengage the clutch. Once its in gear its fine, and seems to operate fine. But I get a loud low pitched whine when its pulled in. Only in gear as well if I remember correctly. Maybe I will start it up first and see if I can get a good sound clip to post up.
Does the leaning over trick work for the clutch as well?

Yes it does. Check the bolt that holds on the clutch basket. The bolts holding the clutch plates too. I forgot to tighten them once and my clutch made a racket in the middle of an Enduro section. I was like "what the?????" I pulled over and dropped the bike on its side pulled the clutch cover and tightened them. Did not loose a drop of oil. bolts were hitting the clutch cover. Took all of 3 minutesto fix.

 

[7point62]

Does the leaning over trick work for the clutch as well?

Yep. If you've already lost some out of the generator cover then it *may* even be ok on the sidestand . If you're not familiar with dirt bikes remember you only have to remove the 6"-ish diameter round cover, not the whole side casing. You may need to adjust the brake pedal so it pushes down out of the way, or just remove it for better access. I may be thinking of another bike though!
If you go here you can download the workshop manual. Elsewhere on the site there's a parts book download with exploded diagrams and part numbers. Really useful stuff!

OK, the clutch... It sounds like it's the release bearing - not a big job. I think the '06 has a ball bearing. Take off the round clutch gover (no gasket, just an o-ring) with an 8mm t-handle. Remove the clutch pressure plate (5mm allen key I think) by undoing the six screws with springs behind 'em. Loosen them in e.g. 12 o'clock, 6 o'clock, 4 o'clock, 10 o'clock etc. order a couple turns at a time to keep the pressure even. The bearing is in the pressure plate that's now in your hand. If there's any play or notchiness then it's shagged (technical term). The good news is that it's a cheap part that you should be able to get at any bearing store. Just take the old bearing along and ask for a decent brand.

If you need to remove it then it's not a tight fit. Warm up the plate with a heat gun, or in an oven at 120 C (chicks don't dig that at all) and it should push out by hand, or with a very gentle tap with a hammer and an old socket of the correct size. removing/fitting bearings is easy if you keep them straight - don't let them tip! If you get as far as fitting the new bearing then heat the pressure plate again and use a socket just smaller that the outer diameter of the bearing to press it in. Don't tap on the bearing inner!*

Let us know how it goes.

*Obviously this last paragraph only applies if it is the bearing that's fubar. I got carried away.

 

[Jornum1]

Awesome thanks guys!

I have had the clutch out before. I put a e-start in the bike as the PO had removed it.
I actually have two other complete baskets so if this one is fubar, one of the other two hopefully are good. I havent taken a good luck at them yet.

I will pull the clutch tomorrow and let you know.

 

[columbia510]

Congrats of finding the gremlin, glad to see that everything worked out.

 

[7point62]

Sounds good bro!

 

[Jornum1]

Thanks guys!

I pulled the clutch, bearing is good, no wobble or any sign of wear. Everything looks as it should in my experience. Maybe this is just how husky's sound? Honestly Ih ave never even heard one in person before.
I will get a clip of it tomorrow. I was able to get everything buttoned up today but didnt get any time to take her out. She started right up with some fresh fuel. Clutch felt a little soft, might have to give that a bleed as well.