TE630 kickstarter

[SilverBullet]

Why does the TE630 have a kickstarter plug in the clutch cover? Is there another Husky that shares this same bottom end and has a kickstarter? If so it shouldn't be very hard to retrofit a kicker then. If a kicker could be added for a few hundred I'd probably like to have it for insurance when riding out in the boonies.

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[Kenneth Webb]

Why does the TE630 have a kickstarter plug in the clutch cover? Is there another Husky that shares this same bottom end and has a kickstarter? If so it shouldn't be very hard to retrofit a kicker then. If a kicker could be added for a few hundred I'd probably like to have it for insurance when riding out in the boonies.

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There is a thread here somewhere covering that topic, at length. The consensus is that the 630 cannot be kick-started because among other reasons, the kick mechanism can't spin the crank fast enough. If I recall correctly, George at Uptite looked at this and pronounced kickstarting dead for this model. Others disagreed, but as I recall nobody has ever installed a starter and kicked the beast to life.

 

[johngil]

If your battery is dead, then so is your fuel pump. Kick starter would be an ornament.

 

[LRPct]

There is a thread here somewhere covering that topic, at length. The consensus is that the 630 cannot be kick-started because among other reasons, the kick mechanism can't spin the crank fast enough. If I recall correctly, George at Uptite looked at this and pronounced kickstarting dead for this model. Others disagreed, but as I recall nobody has ever installed a starter and kicked the beast to life.

+1 ...

 

[SilverBullet]

If your battery is dead, then so is your fuel pump. Kick starter would be an ornament.

Dead yes, but a weak battery might not have enough juice to start but could still be able to power the fuel pump and EFI.

I just searched for 15 minutes before giving up, I can't find a thread about this anywhere on this forum. Can somebody please point me to that thread?

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[capt42104]

+2 for a no go.....

I did one on my buddies 08 DRZ400S. Problem was the head was not machined to allow me to install the manual decompression mechanism. It was a pain to start, and it was a 400! My 02 LC4 is impossible to start if i don't use the decompression.

 

[Xcuvator]

Dead yes, but a weak battery might not have enough juice to start but could still be able to power the fuel pump and EFI.

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I think the voltage requirements for the EFI are higher than the starter. In other words, it could still barely turn over and not start because the EFI is disabled.

 

[LRPct]

Dead yes, but a weak battery might not have enough juice to start but could still be able to power the fuel pump and EFI.

I just searched for 15 minutes before giving up, I can't find a thread about this anywhere on this forum. Can somebody please point me to that thread?

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YW
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14798710&postcount=786

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=507511&page=53

 

[Norman Foley]

I had the dealer install the '98-99 kickstart on my '03 TE610E when it was new in '04. If I had been aware of George Erl's missive on it, I never would have bothered.... it doesn't work. It seemed like a no brainer at the time, it just turned out I had no brains!

 

[SilverBullet]

LRPct and Norman Foley thanks for the above posts. George's explanation makes sense why a kickstarter cannot ever work on a 610/630 and now documented here at CF if anybody searches on this subject in the future.

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[128954431]

The kick starter gearing is correct for a large capacity single which is about half a cycle unless you like pain. A big four stroke should not kick through the compression stroke (as indirectly suggested by others) and when it gets there the lever should be safely disengaged at the bottom of its stroke.
If there is an issue with cranking speed it is in relation to the electronics. It seemed that George alluded to this in his explanations as a footnote, but it appears to have been ignored. I have to admit to not investigating this at all with the Mikuni ECU because the bike was running a uS ECU by the time all of the kick start parts (including compression release) arrived.

Both of my TE630s start on a kick starter (with manual compression release) easily plus start and run without a battery... what's the point of a kick start otherwise? It was not exactly a trivial task, nor was it inexpensive, but it is doable. If you want to know how it is done look first at injected bikes and snowmobiles that kick or pull start and do not have a battery... I don't intend to write a howto... that opportunity passed about a year ago...

Cheers

 

[SilverBullet]

Aaah don't be a tease "I know how, I did it but I'm not telling anybody else how it was done" at least quantify the "not inexpensive" by telling me it cost you over $1,000 AUD so I can remove this from my want list based on cost.

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[128954431]

I had manufactured a handful of kits for testing... $1500 would have got you an idiot proof uS ECU which plugged straight into standard the harness tuned for stock or slip-ons and a complete kick start assembly with a modified lever to clear the air box. The bike would kick start as long as it had a bit of juice in it. It is a bit more than double that price for the full host of electrical, sensor and fuel system mods to get the bike to start without a battery. The DIY cost (tested by a 3rd person with documentation supplied) was about 70% of the kit price.

I had intended to offer the complete kits in conjunction with a howto for the DIY types. General attitudes, along with the hate mail killed off any desire to release information. I am retired now and I don't need the money nor do I need to put up with bull****. The tease is more a poke at those who motivated the killing of these projects for public consumption and at those who say it cannot be done...

 

[SilverBullet]

Good reply and info 128954431

As I suspected the cost for doing this is too rich for my blood (even at DIY 70%) but good to know that it is indeed possible.

I too was guilty for a minute of reading limited info and accepting as fact that it couldn't be done without researching on my own. Thanks for correcting us all on this.

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[Theo]

When I used my 610 on the streets, my usual mate had a 2006 610 with the kickstarter.
I don't go round with that guy any more because we quarreled (it happens... ), but I can tell you some things about it.
First of all, it was very hard for him to start the bike, especially when the engine was cold. Most of the times, he had to try for minutes and, sometimes, he had to give up and to get a push.
He installed the kickstarter to lessen the overall bike weight and the flywheel weight: you can remove the free wheel and its ring. He removed the e-starter and put a little condenser instead of the OEM battery; on a fuel injected 610, I think that we could use a little LiFePO4 battery.
I never tried to ride his 610, but I mounted it statically and it seemed to be much lighter than mine.
He also said that the lightened flywheel:
-made his engine more reactive,
-lessened the engine brake,
-lessened the gyroscopic effect, making the bike much nimbler.
That chap wrote, on an Italian forum, that if you want to put a kickstarer, you have to:
-get a clutch basket of a 2004 or older sm 610 and get its central hole widened to be installed on our larger clutch bushing, because this gear of the basket:

has to have 16 teeth instead of 18, to work with the kickstarter. You also have to get a 2004 or older driving gear of the crankshaft (the gear ratio wouldn't change).
-Get a kickstarter kit for a 1998 or 99 sm 610.


I don't want to have such troubles when I start my 610, but what about installing a manual decompressor from a 570? Would it be practicable?
Look at those drawings:

-The gasket n° 11 on the 610 drawing has the same code of the n° 17 in the 570 drawing, so, if there's room enough, we should be able to install the decompressor cover on the 610 head.
-The cups and the half cones of the valves and the rocker arms have different codes, so I wonder whether the decompressor cam, n° 28 in the 570 drawing, has the dimensions to work properly on the 610 head.
-The 570 camshaft have a valve lifter, like the 610, so I don't think that it could interfere with the decompressor work.

EDIT:

if there's room enough, we should be able to install the decompressor cover on the 610 head.

There should be room, if we remove the plastic coolant tank:

 

[mg94]

I'm necroing this thread just to say that it IS possible to install the old kickstart mechanism on 610/630 models, but if that's worth it or not it's up to debate. I personally did install it on a '00 SM 610 and the bike COULD and WOULD start.
For the bikes that are not natively born with it (pretty much every 610 after 99) there are some steps to take. What's needed:
-Kickstart lever
-kickstart gear and pin (where the lever is going to attach)
-intermediate gear with its pin that has to be inserted into the hole that is right behind the clutch basket
-a <04 clutch basket like Theo suggested
-a small metal part that basically disengages the kickstart gear from the intermediate one when the lever is resting
-while not necessary, one can remove the free wheel and its gear for a whopping 1664 grams less ON THE FLYWHEEL

Let me get this straight: the bike IS difficult to start but not impossible. As always, practice makes perfect. The manual decompression mechanism is nice but not necessay; while pitiful for actual kickstarting, the stock decompressor pin works just enough that i didnt have to hammer the lever to move the piston into optimal position. This is not meant for the masses, this mod is for those hardcore riders that want no compromises when it comes to performance.
Make sure your carburation is perfect BEFORE you try to start it up.

 

[Grez]

LRPct and Norman Foley thanks for the above posts. George's explanation makes sense why a kickstarter cannot ever work on a 610/630 and now documented here at CF if anybody searches on this subject in the future.

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My 610 only had a kick start, to start in summer - find TDC and kick, to start in winter - twist throttle twice fully open and kick, never needed the decompression lever, all that did was make it a bugger to kick into life.

 

[Flynn]

I have a 2001 carb'ed 610SM and I am looking into this mod myself. It would be great to have a kickstart as well. But I fear the only way would be to buy a donor bike and use the parts from that as individually I don't know what to look for.