Te310 busted/pushed another starter out of the motor...what to do now!?

[Fooschnickenz]

I bought a 11 te310 owner said he replaced the worm and ringgear and gave me the old broken parts. The worm gear and ring gear were flawless but the ring gears center was broken out(not sure if it happend when he took it off) I looked through the receipts he gave me and saw worm gear, housing, ringgear, woodruff key and gasket (no sprang) So today I finally got the bikes EFI tuned to an acceptable level and I stalled a few times in some tight rocks. I noticed the starter was getting weak and I thought maybe I had used it too many times (5-6) without the battery recouping. My bike always starts easy hot/cold push start/kickstart in gear whatever u like. So finally is stopped working and I noticed oil dripping. HOORAY!! The starter was pushed out of the motor and broke the ears off the housing and even cracked the case along the top bolt. I'm rather upset in a month of owning the bike I've spent equal time fixing as I have riding. Anyways so here's my question.
1. Why did the engine kick the starter out?
2. Isn't the flywheel turning same direction as the tire, so if Sprag jammed wouldn't it pull the worm gear in?
3. if the case is cracked along the top bolt of starter am I screwed??
I don't wanna just throw a new set of gears on it and a housing only to have it kick out again. I'm may just make it a kick start but that's almost equally upsetting.
Look forward to some advice. Ive read a bunch of threads on here but no one talks about why the bike kicked this thing out other than sayin bike backfired( which mine did not)

 

[ray_ray]

First, too bad on your bike and too too bad this issue effected so many of the later Husky dirt bikes under bmw ...

Only options I see are these ... I'm a Husqvarna rider and #3 is all I see.

1) Spend what ever and fix it
2) Park it
3) Remove the estart and keep riding...
4) Sell it ..

No real answers to your questions but a crack at that part of the case might be a non-event other than leaking and JBWeld or a similar product can fix that ...

Good luck ...

 

[joedirt]

I think the only way to get the mikuni injected bikes to run right is to get the race ecu and 12 port injector. Mine is a 2010 and it runs perfect.

 

[Fooschnickenz]

I think the only way to get the mikuni injected bikes to run right is to get the race ecu and 12 port injector. Mine is a 2010 and it runs perfect.

Yeah I was in the process of locating a ECU already have the injector (not installed) was told could be months before its in stock if I order one today.

As for the crack it wouldn't even leak from that spot it would really only be an issue if put a new starter housing on would I be able to tourqe it down

 

[Fooschnickenz]

One thing to add there where a few times where I kick started it and it sounded like it was engaging the starter towards end of kick would that be Sprag related?

 

[R_Little]

More than likely it kicked back and the sprag stuck and the pinion blasted backward.

You could have a sheared flywheel key too. i have a flywheel with a stuck sprag on my work bench stuck so bad I cannot get it off. I replaced the whole thing.

Frankly, when my starter gives up again I'm going with Ray_Ray's no. 3 above and just remove it.
Get a block off plate from a TC 250 and remove all the starter junk and kick start it.
you are not going to want to bolt another starter in there, JB Weld or no JB Weld.

BTW a 4pt injector can can made to run really good if you have I-beat.
I have a spare 2012 TXC310 CDI in a box.

 

[eddychecker]

Is this a 310 problem or does it affect the 250's too? I have read a lot about doing extra PM by lubing the starter well and I've done exactly that hoping to avoid this problem.

 

[Fooschnickenz]

Is this a 310 problem or does it affect the 250's too? I have read a lot about doing extra PM by lubing the starter well and I've done exactly that hoping to avoid this problem.

from everything I've read it's a x-lite design issue. The woodruff key is supposed to shear before this happens in the event of a kick back. I was stuck on a hill and I backed it down with bike off in first using the clutch as a brake cause of my positioning and I kinda fear that may have even caused it. Looks like it's gonna be a kicker for life the e-start is convienent but not at the cost of adding another spot for potential failure

 

[robertaccio]

I have 2 block off plates available. At the point you are at, and for the age of the bike and costs involved....... I would remove the starter assembly completely and go Kick only. they start so dang easily anyway. Just keep a good strong battery

One question did you ensure that the oil lube passage/orifice was not blocked? the gasket has a hole in it but it can be installed the right way or flip flopped the incorrect way. Also once the flywheel gets brinelled/beat up from the sprag its no good, you will have endless issues*, even if you put in all new sprag and other components. At a glance my inner surface that mates with the sprag clutch looked good but upon closer inspection it had ridges in it from the sprag rollers. We ended up replacing the entire system- Flywheel, sprag, bearings, worm gear, starter etc.
Kawasaki had a recall for this same issue, sprag was not being sacrificial as planned they were eating flywheels. The tempering on the flywheel was less than planned. The fix was replace the entire starter system.
In my case I considered the cost of the system to be reasonable, I disassembled my starter myself and cleaned it all up, it was dirty inside and the brushes were worn but good once cleaned the motor was good. The flywheel is what kills the deal it was like $4-500. I was very fortunate to have a good dealer and when BMW owned the brand---because I ended up with an entire new system for zero cost , it was run on a warranty claim. You no longer have that option, best money is to yank your system and go full kick start. remember the 2011 needs the battery (they did not yet have Keihin FI with the Capacitor) to run well so be sure to have good solid battery installed.
And yes I have 2 blank off caps and one good but used gasket available for sale.

 

[Motosportz]

First, too bad on your bike and too too bad this issue effected so many of the later Husky dirt bikes under bmw ...

These are italian designed bikes and had the starter issues from day one. And its not the starter itself its the gears it is trying to drive. I've yet to see a reliable worm drive system. Same crap that fails on 50% of the KTMs I ride with. My "BMW" TE511 has has zero starter issues in over 6000 miles of off road nor have I really read about any.

 

[R_Little]

I think the whole thing is a little too "X-lite" and is barely engineered to work when everything is installed perfectly. Factor in some parts machined out of tolerance or hardness like Robertaccio says and they just don't hold up.

The E-start is a "get stuck in the woods" issue. Mine locked up so tight I still can't get it apart. Good thing I was close to home and I was not stuck miles out. I was not even using it. The bike flamed out and it all locked up.

The starter, gears, sprag and whatnot must weigh 5# anyway.

I vote lose it and kick. Now you will have a reliable bike.

 

[robertaccio]

These are italian designed bikes and had the starter issues from day one. And its not the starter itself its the gears it is trying to drive. I've yet to see a reliable worm drive system. Same crap that fails on 50% of the KTMs I ride with. My "BMW" TE511 has has zero starter issues in over 6000 miles of off road nor have I really read about any.

side note So far my TE300 has been pain free, although for grins I just changed out my starter relay just to be fresh (I also spritzed a good amount of MaxiLube into my starter gear assy for good measure). She was not turning well for a bit and I finally did some trouble shooting, turned out to be my 2.5 year old Earth-X battery (moneys worth) but meantime I got to PM my system. Now back to X-Lite.
The Italian Husky X-Lite the worm gear starter drive, engineering wise is obvious to me just not to have the "purchase/leverage to crank effectively it is a very inefficient way to crank the engine. a complete bevel drive system probably could have been imagined and incorporated and would have worked very well. The actual Sprag clutch portion of the system is a very common among different manufacturers system that works across the board, the exception being the temper of the inner flywheel from the Huskys that was insufficient harness to deal with the sprag rollers.
Sorry for your misfortune I've lived it with both my 11 TE310 X-Lite and my 13 TXC310 X-lite Red head, neither were pain free in the starter dept. and in other depts. as well. Handling/ braking/ chassis feel/ quality of individual contractor components second to none------overall bike robustness near the bottom compared to other brands.

PS while playing with the system don't forget to change out your start relay- due to the hard to turn nature of the mechanicals the system taps out on the Amperage scale and the main line contacts in the relay get "fried" with carbon and start to be higher resistance across the contacts which just adds to the misery of have even less available cranking power.....I regularly changed out start relays on these 2 bikes....some where I have a thread on that.
Again at this point I would remove the entire system and go kick only.

 

[Fooschnickenz]

just an update for anyone interested. This the damage done by the E-start system. The chunk missing on the case doesn't worry me as much as the spot the the starter pushed in. You can also see the key is pushed/turned a bit.

 

[joedirt]

the key being turn could be caused from the previous owner not installing the flywheel properly.
More than likely your problem was caused by the engine being turn backwards.

 

[Fooschnickenz]

Either the key got turned pushing the starter out or maybe like you said previous owner didn't use proper holder or torque. If the latter is true it could have advanced the timing increasing the kickbacks which caused it to spit he gear out. Either way something that's supposed to be convienent has become a liability so the starter will never go back.

 

[Fooschnickenz]

stopped by my local husky dealer they surprisingly had the block plate, gasket and key in stock! I'm surprised how cheap the little parts are. I installed a stud into the cracked spot, it held good but I also used some quick weld to glue the extra piece back in make the stud permanent.

 

[R_Little]

the key being turn could be caused from the previous owner not installing the flywheel properly.
More than likely your problem was caused by the engine being turn backwards.

We worked on it last nite and it appears the PO had a stuck sprag. He apparently cut the old ring gear off and reused a trashed sprag with the worn flywheel with a new ring gear. I bet it stuck again when this happened. The flywheel key was NOT sheared.

All the starter stuff was worn and now this is a kick only bike that should now run forever!

 

[eddychecker]

I've read where people have used a Honda sprag instead of the Husky one. I just had the starter out again just to verify the condition or the flywheel surface and the sprag, both look good.

 

[robertaccio]

glad to hear, all is going back together well. Just keep a good solid battery for the FI, keep your valves adjusted to spec, keep you comp release mechanism in good order and practice that super smooth stroke X-Lite kick start. these thing start so easily without a big effort, just a smooth stroke (no 2 stroke choppy kicks)
On every ride I would do at least a couple of kick starts just to keep my feel good, but mostly I used the E-start. Your new deal is full Kick start all the time.....we just got spoiled, I mean heck it wasn't very long ago that virtually no dirtbikes had e start. follow the ZipTy oiling recommendations and get out and ride !!! good thing is even with a sprag induced wear and tear on the flywheel..without the system the flywheel is still fine for kick only use, set up like a TC250.

 

[Fooschnickenz]

It did leak a bit from the pushed in spot on the right side, a little JB weld and it's perfect, the stud worked out good as well. After making sure it started I immediately installed the 12 port injector and ECU, reset TPS with iBeat and had to wait till daybreak to test it out. The bike runs better than ever 2nd gear feels like 1st!, can't wait to take it in the woods after work. I can't THANK R_little enough for his help. NEVER meet strangers off he internet unless it's Husky related lol.