Red head TXC 310 engine noise

[TXC310 Chad]

I have done a lot of reading and haven't really found anything describing the noise on my new to me 2013 TXC 310. The engine sounds perfectly normal at all rpm except if I set the Idle low, as-in close to stalling. No other bike I have ridden or owned has sounds like this. A loose / rattle noise compared to other Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, KTM, Husaberg, etc. bikes I have had and ridden. The noise is not affected by in or out of gear or clutch position.

I know these are not quiet motors from what I have read, but I just wanted to see if this is something others have also. I can attempt to make a recording to add if someone wants clarification on what noise I am referring to.

Thanks!

 

[dartyppyt]

Valves could be out of adjustment

If sound coming from shifter side? Check your stator. Mine came loose, shredded inside and ruined flywheel.

If coming from clutch side. Check your rubber dampners behind clutch hub and gear.

 

[TXC310 Chad]

Thanks for your input. The valves are in Spec and I recently pulled the flywheel to reinstall the starter and everything checked out good there. I'll give a check under the clutch side. Maybe it's just the rekluse rattling at idle.

 

[TXC310 Chad]

Here is a quick youtube video showing the rattle sound. Seems to be more pronounced on the left side.

View: https://youtu.be/a0MaRCggkjg

 

[flyingbob]

Manual timing chain tensioner fixed my noisy 250.

 

[TXC310 Chad]

Manual timing chain tensioner fixed my noisy 250.

I haven't seen any for the red head motors... Maybe I haven't looked in the right places? It does sound like timing chain slap to me. Maybe I will have to make my own manual tensioner.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Thanks for your input. The valves are in Spec and I recently pulled the flywheel to reinstall the starter and everything checked out good there. I'll give a check under the clutch side. Maybe it's just the rekluse rattling at idle.

If you just recently pulled the flywheel do you think the noise started afterwards (either immediately or sometime later)? If so, that would be a be huge clue to check the flywheel and woodruff key... like dartyppyt suggested.

Just for GP, I'd pull it, inspect it, and lap it; then use a bearing retainer on it on reinstall. Lotsa people here have had problems with it. I might use a bit more torque too- although I don't know what the torque spec is now.

 

[TXC310 Chad]

If you just recently pulled the flywheel do you think the noise started afterwards (either immediately or sometime later). If so, that would be a be huge clue to check the flywheel and woodruff key... like dartyppyt suggested.

Just for GP, I'd pull it, inspect it, and lap it; then using a bearing retainer on it on reinstall. Lotsa people here have had problems with it. I might use a bit more torque too- although I don't know what the torque spec is now.

The noise is exactly the same now as it was before. The key was in perfect condition and no signs of any fretting so that is definitely not the noise. I may lap and use green loctite on it for peace of mind, though.

 

[Robbe144]

Hi
Maybe to easy.. Do you have a silencer with a snap ring holding the insert? They can rattle pretty good when idling.. If not try the screwdriver to ear trick. Good luck!

 

[R_Little]

The noise is exactly the same now as it was before. The key was in perfect condition and no signs of any fretting so that is definitely not the noise. I may lap and use green loctite on it for peace of mind, though.

That is a very good idea. lap and loctite 609 the flywheel crank fit.

Torque spec is 75nm i do 85.

That noise is not normal on either of my x-lites.

Sounds camchain-ish.

Might want to check the upper chamchain bearing too.

 

[R_Little]

Hi
Maybe to easy.. Do you have a silencer with a snap ring holding the insert? They can rattle pretty good when idling.. If not try the screwdriver to ear trick. Good luck!

Good idea!

it doesn't sound like a spark arrestor but why not hold it down with a screw driver and find out?

 

[TXC310 Chad]

Ok. Silencer is solid and no rattle. It really sounds like a loose timing chain, but I can't dig into it for a while (work out of town). I will start with the tensioner and see if it is doing it's job. I'll update as I get into it.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Did the TXC come with a catalyst? seems weird if it did, but every cat I've seen on the xlites has had a broken retaining ring and rattles around in the header/silencer junction.

(that's a slight embellishment: I've only seen 2)

 

[JonXX]

Your idle speed is set too low. The automatic decompressor is engaging (centrifugal force overcomes the engagement spring).

Get the idle speed back up where it's supposed to be and that noise will disappear.

 

[TXC310 Chad]

Your idle speed is set too low. The automatic decompressor is engaging (centrifugal force overcomes the engagement spring).

Get the idle speed back up where it's supposed to be and that noise will disappear.

I was wondering if the auto decompresser was maybe making contact... If you notice the engine sounds good at normal idle, rattles when I set it low, and goes away again as I set it back to normal.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Your idle speed is set too low. The automatic decompressor is engaging (centrifugal force overcomes the engagement spring).

Get the idle speed back up where it's supposed to be and that noise will disappear.

wow- that's a great observation. yeah, the idle is supposed to be up around 1900rpms.

 

[JonXX]

We see it all the time with 610's. For some reason people think they should set their idle barely above stalling speed.

Well a few things happen - the decompressor spring is able to overcome the centrifugal force and engage, the engine knocks and bangs cos the flywheel is barely able to bump the piston over center, there is insufficient oil flow or pressure, there is insufficient water flow, and flameouts on the trail are much more likely (if not guaranteed).

Set and keep your idle speed where it's supposed to be

 

[TXC310 Chad]

We see it all the time with 610's. For some reason people think they should set their idle barely above stalling speed.

Well a few things happen - the decompressor spring is able to overcome the centrifugal force and engage, the engine knocks and bangs cos the flywheel is barely able to bump the piston over center, there is insufficient oil flow or pressure, there is insufficient water flow, and flameouts on the trail are much more likely (if not guaranteed).

Set and keep your idle speed where it's supposed to be

The idle wasn't all that low. I have it set just below the engagement point of the Rekluse, slightly dragging actually, and if I lower it much at all the decompressor knocks. I would like to be able to set the engagement lower for slick conditions, but the rattle would surely be there then. I guess I am used to my old school klx 300 that makes power at lower rpm than my 310 will idle. I will just keep the idle up and maybe see if I can lower the spring rate on the decompressor so it doesn't come into play at 1750 rpm. No need for it to function above 1000 rpm which the kick and electric starters are slower than.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

The idle wasn't all that low. I have it set just below the engagement point of the Rekluse, slightly dragging actually, and if I lower it much at all the decompressor knocks. I would like to be able to set the engagement lower for slick conditions, but the rattle would surely be there then. I guess I am used to my old school klx 300 that makes power at lower rpm than my 310 will idle. I will just keep the idle up and maybe see if I can lower the spring rate on the decompressor so it doesn't come into play at 1750 rpm. No need for it to function above 1000 rpm which the kick and electric starters are slower than.

[edit- I just realized you're talking about the decomp working rpm; not the engine idle level. sorry. I'm guessing you got the idle rpm's back up there where they belong. everything below is still valid, it just probably does not appy to your bike anymore.

I'll delete this post, in a day or two- just to make sure you haven't responded and are waiting for your post approval. Grrrrrr- it's like I'm blindly stalking you all around Cafe Husky]

whoa... I just noticed this. Chad, besides a short-stroke engine not having enough flywheel effect to smooth-out the power impulses, the real problem is oil pressure. Your cams are riding on a thin film of oil- no roller bearings on one side, just the aluminum pillow blocks (aka caps).

Don't make motor wear be subservient to the Rekluse. And besides- when your motor tries to die while at a (high) idle, the rekluse will quit pulling once the motor stumbles to the lower rpm.

Or else set your rekluse to engage at 2000rpms

I do not know of any modern single short-stroke 4t motor that's idles at 1000rpm from the factory.... or even close.

 

[TXC310 Chad]

whoa... I just noticed this. Chad, besides a short-stroke engine not having enough flywheel effect to smooth-out the power impulses, the real problem is oil pressure. Your cams are riding on a thin film of oil- no roller bearings on one side, just the aluminum pillow blocks (aka caps).



Don't make motor wear be subservient to the Rekluse. And besides- when your motor tries to die while at a (high) idle, the rekluse will quit pulling once the motor stumbles to the lower rpm.



Or else set your rekluse to engage at 2000rpms



I do not know of any modern single short-stroke 4t motor that's idles at 1000rpm from the factory.... or even close.

I know what you are saying, but I'm not going to get it to idle that low. I would be shooting for a few hundred rpm less. My point is that the decompressor is coming into play at about 1700rpm (guessing) and that will effectively stall the engine if it starts opening the valve. Other modern bikes I have been around don't have the decompressor kick in that high (KTMs, Husabergs, Kawasaki etc.) and I would like to be able to lug the engine a little in technical areas. I'm not shooting for old school xr 400 put put idle.