Dead Strada

[glitch_oz]

As feared at time of purchase of the bike..... the shit hit the fan about 3 months ago.
The Strada just rolled over and died and the whole merry dance of dealers, MOSS/OSS/warranties etc etc started to take its dreaded course.
For this thread, I'll just stick to the facts...and hopefully be able to post a solution at some stage.

_________________________________________________________________





Background:
Odo ~3500km/ 2200mi, no issues since day one. Occasional popping and farting on overrun, occasional stall issue receding with use. Bike is de-restricted via dealer at time of purchase. Due to circumstances, the bike was not registered/ used right after purchase, but around 11 months later.

Electrical accessory circuits via direct battery tap and fused relays only, no "dirty wires" anywhere.

PodMod with pre-filter, sidestand switch bypass, ignition lock bypass.
NO other mods related to engine or electronics, air, fuel, exhaust system etc etc
No spoofers.


Go for a 1/2 day photo-ride, all fine.
Top up fuel after the last ride at the usual local pump (high volume, major hwy outlet). Wash and rinse bike. Hook up to usual battery tender. Restart bike after 2-3 weeks, starts fine.




Symptoms:
Good cold start, runs ok on choke/cold settings.
After ~60 secs run time, idle starts to turn rough, lumpy, engine dies.
Immediate re-start is fine, engine catches right away, lumpy idle, very lumpy and ragged on accelerator, stumbling, popping, backfiring hard into airbox (whereas spotlessly clean before, now carbon-coated as well as the pod-filter, intake throat etc). Bike un-rideable beyond 50m/ yards, engine dies after rough running and backfiring, stumbling, farting etc etc.
Re-start possible immediately.....to die again after 10 seconds or so.


Measures taken before involving dealer:
Check fuel and tank for foul-fuel/ water/ sediment...drain tank and refill with fresh Premium.
Replace battery with new, fresh one.
Check + clean (replace) Pre-filter sock and pod-filter foam, clean out carbon (from backfiring) airbox and intake throat/ butterfly, check for loose/ damaged/ kinked vacuum hoses/ lines/ cables/ tubes around engine.
Nothing found.

Re-plug standard RF antenna, removing the ignition-key bypass.
Fuel pump check: with pressure hose to injector rail disconnected, the pump runs for two ~5 second cycles before the system detects no backpressure and shuts down the fuel pump. After that the hose has to be re-connected to re-activate the pump.

All symptoms remain the same. Idle ok when cold, dies and sputters/ backfires when warming up. No errors on dash. All lights etc working.

I'm out of ideas and parts....and the bloody thing is still under warranty, right?


Husky Dealer/ importer/warranties:
Dealer had the bike 8 weeks so far, no electronic checking can be done (apart from hooking up the KTM service tablet and wiping the "service-spanner" on the dash)

Comms between dealer and PFG National Service Manager (the old importer as KTM doesn't want anything to do with those bikes) are PAINFULLY**************************************** slow!!!

As expected, there's plenty of the usual bullshit : "but, but you modded the airbox etc, so we're not responsible...etc etc" .

The first indication that ANYTHING was done on the bike over the last 8 weeks were a few phone pics showing me a slightly dirty stepper motor....and supposedly they followed my urging to use another CO2 sensor from some other bike/ brand/model/ no idea what....and supposedly the first run turned out fine, but ....SUPPOSEDLY....they've had that before.
(without ever even mentioning what they'd done to even get that far :bang.
SUPPOSEDLY!).


Without the trusty, old VStrom to keep scootin' around on, I would've gone bonkers by now.....thanks god for Suzukis, hooray!


We'll see what happens next...oops, re-phrase: if anything happens sometime.

 

[Tinken]

Does it use pen coils?

 

[glitch_oz]

Does it use pen coils?

?? Pen coils ??

 

[CarstenB]

coil in plug i guess in which case the answer would be yes

 

[Mark_H]

coil in plug i guess in which case the answer would be yes

....and ???

 

[mag00]

Go for a 1/2 day photo-ride, all fine.
Top up fuel after the last ride at the usual local pump (high volume, major hwy outlet). Wash and rinse bike. Hook up to usual battery tender. Restart bike after 2-3 weeks, starts fine.

Has this been fully investigated?

Did the injector get cleaned? Might be time for the bigger injectior mod while you are in there checking. Also for what the shop is going to charge you, might want to get a gs911.

 

[glitch_oz]

coil in plug i guess in which case the answer would be yes

Sorry, still don't get it.

Has this been fully investigated?

Did the injector get cleaned? Might be time for the bigger injectior mod while you are in there checking. Also for what the shop is going to charge you, might want to get a gs911.

If it was an injector issue it wouldn't run smooth and round on choke/ cold start... nor start readily everytime (hot or cold!)...which also makes the coils/plugs unlikely.
I doubt any GS911 would make a difference...it's not a matter of changing how the engine runs, but to get it running in the first place.

As for "fully investigated"....that would involve an OSS hook up first and foremost, which is simply no option due to the lack of facilities.

 

[Chuffa]

When my plugs needed changing my bike had very similar symptoms to the ones you listed. I'm guessing at 3500km you wouldn't think to change them, but it might be worth a shot, especially if you can borrow a pair.

 

[CarstenB]

Sorry, still don't get it.

some people call the ignition coil that is part of the spark plug "pen coil", probably for it's shape. Our bikes have such coils.

 

[mag00]

Sorry, still don't get it.




If it was an injector issue it wouldn't run smooth and round on choke/ cold start... nor start readily everytime (hot or cold!)...which also makes the coils/plugs unlikely.
I doubt any GS911 would make a difference...it's not a matter of changing how the engine runs, but to get it running in the first place.

As for "fully investigated"....that would involve an OSS hook up first and foremost, which is simply no option due to the lack of facilities.

Since the new parameters were/are adding fuel and washing bike, those are the conditions that appear to be different from all the other times. Fuel can be bad and dirt and or water can clog and injector of fuel filter. They don't all clog the same. The contamination could be working like a flapper valve, so to speak.

Washing the bike, well, I have had issues with water after washing my bike, and many cars and bikes over the years. Pull things apart and hit them with a hairdryer.

And yes, bad coils can act just as your issue is. Had a Chrysler that we chased issues for until one day the thing died at night and I was monkeying around and saw the spark jumping in all the wrong places.

Electrical components heating up and failing is actually quite common. The washing could have set things in motion. If you fired it up after washing it with water in just the wrong spot, then put it away, you would never have known.

There is a pair of coils on Ebay USA for $50

 

[mag00]

On a totally different subject, and most likely not the cause, how about that bypass?

Back when you did all this, I mentioned/warned about it possibly screwing the ecu. This was based on an expert key coder/duplicator guy I spoke with who saw/experienced issues with some other bikes.

My bike will start with a blank key for a few seconds after shutting it down, without the immo chip nearby. As far as I know, the only people privy to the info and programming of our ecu and the immo are the people who made it. NONE of the other experts here or adv know what is going on at that level.

Wayne would be the closest to it, and the Sertao does not run the Immo, so he would not likely be familiar with it.

The GS 911 is a diagnostic tool and it can reset params.

Sure hope you didn't fry the ecu.

 

[glitch_oz]

When my plugs needed changing my bike had very similar symptoms to the ones you listed. I'm guessing at 3500km you wouldn't think to change them, but it might be worth a shot, especially if you can borrow a pair.

Should've mentioned that one of the later changes was a set of Brisk plugs....which I changed for the OEM items after the problem surfaced.
Same symptoms/ problems with either set of plugs.

 

[glitch_oz]

Since the new parameters were/are adding fuel and washing bike, those are the conditions that appear to be different from all the other times. Fuel can be bad and dirt and or water can clog and injector of fuel filter. They don't all clog the same. The contamination could be working like a flapper valve, so to speak.

Washing the bike, well, I have had issues with water after washing my bike, and many cars and bikes over the years. Pull things apart and hit them with a hairdryer.

And yes, bad coils can act just as your issue is. Had a Chrysler that we chased issues for until one day the thing died at night and I was monkeying around and saw the spark jumping in all the wrong places.

Electrical components heating up and failing is actually quite common. The washing could have set things in motion. If you fired it up after washing it with water in just the wrong spot, then put it away, you would never have known.

There is a pair of coils on Ebay USA for $50

As described in OP, I drained the tank of all fuel before using fresh fuel.
Tank and old fuel were thoroughly inspected for contamination of any sort, from clouding, discoloration to taping a bunch of cotton-tips to a thin timber dowel, swabbing all the folds around the floor of the tank checking for sediment. Not a single speck of dirt showed up. Water-fouling was checked for as well, standing in the garage for 4 weeks at the current high temps (regularly around the 100F +) would've also dried out most possible spots.
None of the the measures taken resulted in any changes.

Coils could be an issue but seem unlikely as the engine runs smooth on choke/ cold settings, then sputters and dies at around the "swap-over" point where the high-idle drops to normal idle.
There was also no water in/ around the coils/plug-caps/ plug wells etc.

All of which seems to negate any ECU issue as well.
Same for the ignition bypass....which was removed, as per original post.

Thanks for the ideas, I've started to write things down as there are too many possibles/ maybe's/unlikely's/impossibles etc

 

[mag00]

The Terra will run on one coil, it will error out though. But the trigger sending the signal (crank sensor) could be failing, not uncommon. I'm fairly sure that would be testable in the GS911, but have never had my hands on that to see what it can do.

When it craps out, is your temp indicator always reading the same bars?

Did the fuel injector get cleaned? Fuel injectors are run on magnetic coils as well and can fail. That should show up as well with the code reading. If it sticks though, might not error out. So any static tests with Ω meter may not show problem, and a sticky injector or dislodged metering needle may not show on the codes. Best I can tell, you guys down under seem to have more fuel related issues than other countries.

Don't underestimate the power of water. It is a great conductor and we know our bikes have issues with the ECU and grounds. Just hope and pray it is a sensor or small item bad, not the ecu.

Rats chewed my harness on my van, took out the ecu. Crank sensor went bad at same time. Couldn't diagnose until I got a new computer. Heat played a big role in the ecu intermittent failure. Then again, you just may find that elusive connector that came loose right at the same time.

Once you rule out the probable what is left is the improbable. <----- and the ecu falls into this.

My next major purchase will be the GS911. I can't rely on KTM to get it right. Also, if my ecu goes south, it's all about the Microsquirt.

 

[glitch_oz]

The Terra will run on one coil, it will error out though.

That's what I presumed...but I'm rather inclined to go with what I see and start looking at anything that comes into the choke/ off-choke arena.
Engine running fine when cold and keeling over when around the point of kicking across to normal (warm) operation points towards a small-ish set of possibles.
Could be wrong, though...

 

[sussurf]

TR's will run on 1 plug, but very poorly, hot or cold.
Guess how I know?
It sounds unlikely as you have checked already but make doubly sure the coil connectors are well & truly home over the plugs & at the clip-on connector.

 

[bikesparky]

Can I suggest something that might fix your issues. It is a bit of work but could be well worth doing.
Take the seat, tank etc off as if you do a normal service.
Take appart every electrical connector, especially the ones to and from ecu, tps, ans clean with contact cleaner.
If you find "green" ones use some find sand paper or a small brass wire brush to clean.
Dry out with compressed air and lube with dielectric grease.

I done a few bikes recently with issues that nobody could diagnose and all it needed was this.
If your bike packs out after a good wash or ride in the rain, you can almost put money on it that one of these connectors has moisture in it.

The ecu relies on low voltage signals to work and the tiniest amount of water will stuff it up, take my word for it!

 

[LED]

...Dry out with compressed air and lube with dielectric grease.

I though dielectric grease was an insulator and not recommended for electrical contacts.

 

[Huskynoobee]

Dielectric grease is indeed a proven corrosion and moisture inhibitor on electrical contacts. You may be confusing this with the dielectric insulator used in coax cable. This separates the inner conductor from the outer which is also referred to as a shield.

There are actually different types of dielectric used in cable applications. The low wattage type you're most familiar with use a flexible Teflon dielectric, while medium power applications use a flexible foam type. Higher power heliax and ridgid line systems actually have an air dielectric using hard Teflon standoffs to keep the center conductor centered in the line. We use either super dry air or nitrogen to keep the line positively pressurized to keep moisture out and reduce VSWR or reflected power issues to a minimum.

 

[bikesparky]

I though dielectric grease was an insulator and not recommended for electrical contacts.

Dielectric grease is indeed and insulator, and it's not a contact but a connector.
The pins still make contact regardless of the grease. The function of the grease is to stop moisture getting in and prevent contact in between pins due to the moisture.