Automatic springs breaking

[Michel Dufayard]

On my 430 AE I've broken several primary clutch springs in a short time.
After 1 hour for the first, and then after 30 min for the second.
The spring breaks always at the same place, near the 1st coil in
front of the hub's hole.
Do you ( auto riders) have the same problem, and do you have an explication ?
One explication was on 360 to 420 that the hub's hole were very sharp
and damaged the spring.
But on 430 ae the holes are rounded.
Thanks
Michel

 

[fran...k.]

You probably have read what I will type pretty much before.

Likely the springs left by now are seconds. Seconds mean rejects for some reason. The color you are looking for as the more reliable ones is that one #2 though I do see it is broken. If you can't get the whole kit for those magnetic shoed, spiral grooved first gear set up just ride it occasionally in the snow/winter conditions. The bronze or similar bronze looking shoes with the angled slots that could be cleaned up with a hacksaw and smooth drum go farther. Perhaps another thread as to how much farther, I would say at least 3x the way I rode. At the end I bought the kit and cherry picked the color (hue not strength color) ones I liked from dealer stock and purchased them separately. How do the 420 kind fit in there there is an extra hole in the center piece.

I see your pivot pins have drifted to different depths, mine did that also and shed chips off the nail head like parts.

Looks like a sheared keyway, never did that was able to make spot welds without shearing the key.

Fran

 

[dukkman]

I have never had anything to do with the auto's and this might sound silly ---- but.
Are those the correct springs ? and if they are what idiot thought up that idea.
The load is running at a funny angle , sort of twisting , and you would expect them to break where they are breaking also there is a flat spot exactly where the break is, something rubbing?
Spring 3 and 4 look like the correct ones and they would fit in the other holes.
Just an observation
Cheers

 

[Michel Dufayard]

I have never had anything to do with the auto's and this might sound silly ---- but.
Are those the correct springs ? and if they are what idiot thought up that idea.
The load is running at a funny angle , sort of twisting , and you would expect them to break where they are breaking also there is a flat spot exactly where the break is, something rubbing?
Spring 3 and 4 look like the correct ones and they would fit in the other holes.
Just an observation
Cheers

Spring#2 is the 430 ae standard spring ( not broken). Spring#1 is a broken 430 ae standard spring. #3 and 4 are others AE springs( 500 or 420).
I've been told that hva made that evolution on 430 ae springs, because the wire broke where the wire is bent. So, less bent = less broke.
But I'm not sure the spring shape is the problem. Others spring shape breaks.

I'M ASKING MYSELF IF MY SPRINGS BROKE WHEN I PUT ON DRIVE WITH TOO HIGH HIGH IDLE ( THE GEARS MADE SOME NOISE) AND SOONER THE
MOTOR COULDN'T HANDLE IDLE ( SYMPTOM OF 1st SPRING BREAK).

 

[fran...k.]

I stand corrected that #2 one does appear whole. None of mine ever broke in a parked situation moving the engagement lever. They broke out on the trail riding along, if the spring jams against the lumps for the threads to hold on the water pump you know it right away otherwise If I remember right it keeps pushing at idle. The engagement grinding is those four notch things over near the engaging lever on the front shaft, the non freewheel one.

 

[Michel Dufayard]

Fran'k
If I understood, my broken springs are bad quality. I need to make news ones with good quality .
#2 is not broken, it is only the 430 ae spring shape !
I've rounded all sharp edges on the central hub.
Because I thought it could come from shock with hub's sharp edges.
As you see on pics, there's only 2-3 mm between the clutch drum and the shoes.
So the springs can't be too much stretched.

 

[stormer254]

Michel, I have broken a set of first gear springs on my 420 but the replacement set have lasted well at the moment next time I take her to pieces I will check if the holes have been rounded or not. I have more trouble getting the bike to rev out in the lower gears, though full throttle mixture, 400 main jet is spot on! The springs on my 430 at the moment are fine but I have not had a chance to do an event on it yet. I think Fran is right a lot of the spare springs available now are probably seconds. I think that you have done the right thing rounding the corners to reduce the stress, I can also see your spring cover plate did a good job and saved you from damage. The grating noise you hear when you engage gear is the dogs on the engagement gear, it is the same engagement system on the 420 and I have seen the evidence when i looked inside her! If you do decide to try and get springs made,I would be very interested. I bet the Swedish army have a few spare springs somewhere!!

 

[Michel Dufayard]

I've had 2 interesting messages: one from Paul Rooney ( former Australian hva dealer and expert in autos) and one from Lynn who had owned three 430 AE.
Paul has written 25+ years ago an interesting article in Australian Dirt Bike about 500 AE and maintenance. I can send it if interested.

HI Michel. Looking at the photos there seems to be a wear mark on the spring, if so that will be enough for it to break. If the distance is too large between the shoe & drum, you then need to pre-stretch the spring so it doesn't have to stretch so far. Or you may have a bad batch of springs. Paul Rooney

Michel,
I have owned 3 of the 430 AE's. I performed a simple modification to correct, or at least improve the problem. The shoes have play in them when not under load. Try putting a small weld bead on the back of the short flat part of the shoe where it meets the next shoe. Grind the weld down to where it is flat, but leave enough weld to act as a spacer between the shoes and keep the springs tight, even at rest. When the springs are not tight, they break easily. As always, be sure you change the oil after every ride. Someone used to make a simple spring retainer that fit under the nut and held the springs in place. In the event that a spring did break, you were still able to ride the bike to get back to your vehicle. Maybe someone else on here has one or can remember who made them. I hope this helps.
Lynn

 

[Michel Dufayard]

Michel, I have broken a set of first gear springs on my 420 but the replacement set have lasted well at the moment next time I take her to pieces I will check if the holes have been rounded or not. I have more trouble getting the bike to rev out in the lower gears, though full throttle mixture, 400 main jet is spot on! The springs on my 430 at the moment are fine but I have not had a chance to do an event on it yet. I think Fran is right a lot of the spare springs available now are probably seconds. I think that you have done the right thing rounding the corners to reduce the stress, I can also see your spring cover plate did a good job and saved you from damage. The grating noise you hear when you engage gear is the dogs on the engagement gear, it is the same engagement system on the 420 and I have seen the evidence when i looked inside her! If you do decide to try and get springs made,I would be very interested. I bet the Swedish army have a few spare springs somewhere!!

Here's rounded holes ( pics of Rami) !

 

[dukkman]

Paul Rooney pretty much knew all about pre Cagiva Huskys.
Nice guy too.

 

[Zim]

If anyone is thinking of getting some 420 and 430 1st gear springs make post up here,there is a difference between them.I would take a set of 420 for sure.I expect there would be better metallurgy available these days .Paul Rooney is pretty handy with BMW's as well.

 

[Michel Dufayard]

I have springs #4 ( 6 coils) , and the parts # said it is for 500 AE ( ?!!).
Springs # 3 (5 coils)(Gatos) are made recently for 430 ae with older shape.

 

[Husky250mag]

 

[Geoff]

I've had 2 interesting messages: one from Paul Rooney ( former Australian hva dealer and expert in autos) and one from Lynn who had owned three 430 AE.
Paul has written 25+ years ago an interesting article in Australian Dirt Bike about 500 AE and maintenance. I can send it if interested.

HI Michel. Looking at the photos there seems to be a wear mark on the spring, if so that will be enough for it to break. If the distance is too large between the shoe & drum, you then need to pre-stretch the spring so it doesn't have to stretch so far. Or you may have a bad batch of springs. Paul Rooney

Michel,
I have owned 3 of the 430 AE's. I performed a simple modification to correct, or at least improve the problem. The shoes have play in them when not under load. Try putting a small weld bead on the back of the short flat part of the shoe where it meets the next shoe. Grind the weld down to where it is flat, but leave enough weld to act as a spacer between the shoes and keep the springs tight, even at rest. When the springs are not tight, they break easily. As always, be sure you change the oil after every ride. Someone used to make a simple spring retainer that fit under the nut and held the springs in place. In the event that a spring did break, you were still able to ride the bike to get back to your vehicle. Maybe someone else on here has one or can remember who made them. I hope this helps.
Lynn

Hi Guys...
Just now ran across this thread. Rick Wadley, who has a machine shop in Eagle Lake, Texas called Wadko Precision, made spring retainers for Husky Autos many years ago... they were great for keeping a broken spring from chewing up the inside of the case, and, as previously mentioned, for allowing the motor to keep running. I have no idea whether he might be willing to make more of them, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask. I found a phone number for the shop... 979-234-2244.

Geoff

 

[Michel Dufayard]

Rode 3-4 hours this last week-end.
The spring retainer and the magnet glued was useful.
One 1st clutch spring broke.
I think I must broke them when engaging.
My iddle is too high and it makes a big noise when engaging.

 

[everfree]

Rode 3-4 hours this last week-end.
The spring retainer and the magnet glued was useful.
One 1st clutch spring broke.
I think I must broke them when engaging.
My iddle is too high and it makes a big noise when engaging.

Michel,
Did you ever find out why your springs are breaking? Did you find a fix for the problem?
What spring cover are you using now? I have seen different styles of spring covers.
Thanks.
Dave

 

[Michel Dufayard]

Everfree
I use this model which is screwed by the big nut, so it doesn't move. The wings are a little bit longer
than on the drawning (3-4 mm)in order to cover the springs..
About the breaking, I think that the idle was too high and cause the damages on springs.

 

[everfree]

Michel,
I just bought a 430 Auto engine. The engine # is 2122-0111.
I've been told it's a 1986 model.

Looking up the engine # on HuskyClub.com, an 1986 430 AE engine is 2072. There's no number for 1987 AE.
Is 2122 a 1987 engine?

 

[stormer254]

I don't believe there is any difference.

 

[Michel Dufayard]

Stormer if you look at my message #1 in this thread, the spring # 4 (500 duf) measure
49 mm long. There's one more coil than others, the wire is thinner.
So I think it is more a 390-420 spring that a 430-500, because the 430-500 are 51-51.5 mm long
and the 390-420 are 49 mm. What do you think ?