'74 450wr Best Carb Choice?

[FirstEliminator]

Hey guys,

So, I have a few vintage Huskys, all in disassembled states hangng from the rafters. I had attempted to start putting together a 77ish 360wr. However, I have been so busy at work that I haven't had the time. So, talking to a friend, he mentioned he is selling off most of his collection of old bikes. In those bikes is (if you couldn't guess from the title) a 1974 450wr. The main thing wrong with the bike is the carb slide is worn out. There are some other little issues like lights and wiring. It has a Bing 54. Should I attempt to fix the Bing or replace it with someting like a Mikuni? I do have a few Dell Ortos---are they any good for this application? They are from a '98 Husaberg 501.

For the time being, it is just way easier to buy a bike that is like 99% instead of boxes of crusty parts that I don't know what is missing. This complete bike will also serve as a model to help guide me on putting together the other bikes.

thanks in advance,
Mark

 

[fran...k.]

You state the slide is worn out. How about the bore of the carb body? Is it possible to wear one out without wearing out the other? I would think the best results costs being of no object is to get a carb like on the brand new two stroke Husaberg, or wait a few years and see about adapting a fuel injection system to it, kits probably will be available by then. The round slide micuni vm 38mm is probably a kind of more normal thing to do.

fran

 

[FirstEliminator]

The guy that sold me the bike said he had heard the slide was intentionally made of a softer material so it wears out before the bore. This slide is getting hour-glass shaped. I couldn't see any wear in the bore.

 

[FirstEliminator]

Correction, I looked up the number to the bike. With the vin of MK00969 it is a 1973.

I am not sure how bright the light is for this 450. If it is as dim as my '87 430 I need to do something better. If it improves the brightness at lower rpms, I was thinking of putting an MZB ignition in it. However, I didn't see 450 listed. Anyone know if there is one available, which part number would fit and if it would make an improvement?

 

[ronn450]

Go back to the Bing 54 as they work great and belong on that bike . Same as for my 74 WR175 I run the stock amal carb and it works great .

 

[FirstEliminator]

Yeah, that is probably the easiest thing to do. I heard a slide is around 30 bucks. I also need a needle and probably the needle jet.

 

[FirstEliminator]

$30 bucks--------HA!...times 5. The only place that I have found today to buy a carb slide for a Bing 54 is from Bing directly. The guy I spoke with said they had to have a new run made and the price is now $146. As much as this bike will be used the carb will probably last forever. So, I bought it.
Thought about the Mikuni route again. However, the Bing came out of the bike and will drop right back in. It is what belongs there.
For my 360wr project I will be going with a Mikuni.

 

[sweenster]

$30 bucks--------HA!...times 5. The only place that I have found today to buy a carb slide for a Bing 54 is from Bing directly. The guy I spoke with said they had to have a new run made and the price is now $146. As much as this bike will be used the carb will probably last forever. So, I bought it.
Thought about the Mikuni route again. However, the Bing came out of the bike and will drop right back in. It is what belongs there.
For my 360wr project I will be going with a Mikuni.

Just read the old "Dirtbike Magazine" article about this bike. To sum it up, the rear shocks REALLY sucked, everything leaked (we all know that) and... it ran like a turd (they tried re-jetting) until they did the Mikuni upgrade and it made (according to them) a HUGE difference in all around performance/starting/idling/USEABLE powerband. They had a other Husky owners ride it and most all of them agreed with DB Mag's take...

 

[FirstEliminator]

Well that is disheartening news being I already ordered the parts for the Bing. Perhaps I will buy a Mikuni later if it does suck that bad.

 

[sweenster]

Well that is disheartening news being I already ordered the parts for the Bing. Perhaps I will buy a Mikuni later if it does suck that bad.

I'm doing both. I've rebuilt my Bing54 for my 74 250CR mag (install pending) and I have a 36mm mikuni custom jetted from sudco for my 76 360WR(install pending). I have other stuff to do before I fire em up. I'll keep you posted. NOTE: I didn't do the Mikuni upgrade on the 250 because I want it as original as possible.

 

[87husky500xc]

Well I dont know much about the 450s and havnt ridden one but I cant imagine stock they sucked all that bad and it wouldnt be the first time a magazine trashed a husky........every husky ive ridden flat hauls ass even stockunless there is something terribly wrong with it...just imo

 

[sweenster]

Well I dont know much about the 450s and havnt ridden one but I cant imagine stock they sucked all that bad and it wouldnt be the first time a magazine trashed a husky........every husky ive ridden flat hauls ass even stockunless there is something terribly wrong with it...just imo

what they were sayin (back in 1974) was this bike was VERY expensive for the time and SHOULD have had problem areas addressed BEFORE it came out of the crate ... paper air filter stock from factory was criminally negligent and should be immediately replaced with a foam filter (still true today). all older forks leaked (still true today). most all older "stock" shocks sucked compared to what else was available then (still true today). bike RAN/STARTED bad until they (reluctantly) changed it and THEN became believers in the change. They didn't (then) think that Husky would be capable of making a mistake in Carb choice (imagine that...). Ultimately the Husky factory agreed as they eventually started replacing some of the carbs with Mikunis... A)I'm sure more elaborate info is available on carbs of the era and B)I'm just repeating what I read (I wasn't there) I have found that the magazine,back then (as is today) had some pretty accurate insights and observations on most all of the bikes to include first and formost, the ability to compare "side by side" new un-abused models of most all dirtbikes. I trust their judgement. IMO

 

[mike328]

I have a BING on my 450.. Had it rebuilt at the shop in Kansas. It needed a slide ($130.00) It is a machined slide, not cast as original. It needed MORE parts, but since there was a question on the price...there it is. I chose to stay with the BING. I found their customer service GREAT/HELPFUL/& PLEASANT & worth every cent I spent. Now for Mikuni...I have a 250 CR Elsinore. Bought it from a shop (western states shop) at sea level. The original Kehin Carb is still operable, BUT I cannot find jets for my elevation. The shop I bought my Elsinore from GAVE me a NEW Mikuni and jets with the bike. Now Sudco is the Importer for Mikuni, so figure start there. I called Sudko to ask them about jetting specs for the mikuni, & figured if I needed 'other' jet sizes, I would order from them. I told them I have a new carb, & explained the purpose for my call. They immediately shut me down, telling me that they would jet & set up another new carb I bought from them, but their jetting is proprietary... I told them I had a new carb & I would buy my jets from them....yadda yadda ..they were NO help & were rude!.. what a contrast when I have a handwritten note from Charlie @ BING discussing settings / jetting on my 450. It doesnt end there with BING..I have called them in the past and discussed Jetting. They always give advise & help! So in my book...BING all the way.. AND THEY Work Great!!

 

[mike328]

Sweenster?.. I understand what you are trying to demonstrate, but really?.. Ok lets look at the "criminally negligent' paper air filter. Compare that to a Foam Filter on a Bultaco...BUT compare the Chrome Moly on the Husky frame to the steel on the Bull! I would rather have the better steel on the Husky over the Bulltaco...The chrome moly is what drove the price up!.. yet at the time Bulls were right there in terms of price with the husky's. Japanese prices were 'close' within approx $200 - $250. Ok now the fork seals....OHH MY GOODNESS**************************************** what a travesty.. yes the Husky seals leaked...so did Maico, CZ, Bultaco, yes The Japanese seals were good!..but we all knew that back then!! Oh what about how the Japanese bikes handled like $#!^!!..compared to the Husky/ Europeans...but we all Knew that too...I didnt see anything in your post about the power bands on a Husky.. how they were very adapt at their respective riding task ie; moto, desert.. find the side by side comparison to a suzuki 500.. it had a power band as wide as a hair on a gnats a$$.. The Elsinore does tooo! There was idle & ON. The Japanese bikes were like a 'light switch'. The Huskys have a smoother power band, handling, & frame.

It was known that rings had to be replaced in a Honda Elsinore 'about' (I an guessing here because I dont want to look it up in my Elsinore manual) every 4-6 motos.. ok so .. pull the engine jug & replace rings vs fork seals...Yes Husky needed rings replaced too...but my point is we knew this too. It was all about mitigating fixes/upgrades.
When truely dissecting the comparison...what would you rather upgrade to?...a new foam filter or a Rickman Frame?.. (Rickman made great frames & used Montessa & Bultaco engines). If I recall Bultaco & Montessa also built some bikes on Rickman Frames.
Clearly a $20.00 - $35.00 foam filter is a more reasonable upgrade than a frame.
All these bikes had their 'problems' back then but for Great handling, smoothe power band and good chrome moly frames THAT is what we paid for!! because all fork seals need replacing just like an air filter.. But who wants to replace a frame!

what they were sayin (back in 1974) was this bike was VERY expensive for the time and SHOULD have had problem areas addressed BEFORE it came out of the crate ... paper air filter stock from factory was criminally negligent and should be immediately replaced with a foam filter (still true today). all older forks leaked (still true today). most all older "stock" shocks sucked compared to what else was available then (still true today). bike RAN/STARTED bad until they (reluctantly) changed it and THEN became believers in the change. They didn't (then) think that Husky would be capable of making a mistake in Carb choice (imagine that...). Ultimately the Husky factory agreed as they eventually started replacing some of the carbs with Mikunis... A)I'm sure more elaborate info is available on carbs of the era and B)I'm just repeating what I read (I wasn't there) I have found that the magazine,back then (as is today) had some pretty accurate insights and observations on most all of the bikes to include first and formost, the ability to compare "side by side" new un-abused models of most all dirtbikes. I trust their judgement. IMO

 

[sweenster]

I'm right with you on both Bing and Sudco. I have been finding a lot of Husky "vendors" to be cranky and rude, but... when they're the only game in town, you wind up biting the bullet. And.....because of this attitude, I have included (above) the sudco "proprietary" specs they built my carb to. If I can save just ONE person from being fleeced by them and people LIKE them, I've earned my keep. By far the worst (so-far) is John Le Fevre @ vintage husky. Cranky,rude (reminds me of the soup nazi!) apparently, NO SOUP FOR ME even after spending 100s of dollars at his shop. I call this "jumping over dollars to get to dimes". Only a Dumb @$$ (yes, feel free to tell him I said so) would turn away from the THOUSANDS I'll be spending in the near future on restoring two Huskys (and counting) because he MISLEAD ME COMPLETELY on two carbs. His loss, other vendors gains.

 

[sweenster]

Sweenster?.. I understand what you are trying to demonstrate, but really?.. Ok lets look at the "criminally negligent' paper air filter. Compare that to a Foam Filter on a Bultaco...BUT compare the Chrome Moly on the Husky frame to the steel on the Bull! I would rather have the better steel on the Husky over the Bulltaco...The chrome moly is what drove the price up!.. yet at the time Bulls were right there in terms of price with the husky's. Japanese prices were 'close' within approx $200 - $250. Ok now the fork seals....OHH MY GOODNESS what a travesty.. yes the Husky seals leaked...so did Maico, CZ, Bultaco, yes The Japanese seals were good!..but we all knew that back then!! Oh what about how the Japanese bikes handled like $#!^!!
...compared to the Husky...but we all Knew that too...I didnt see anything in your post about the power bands on a Husky.. how they were very adapt at their respective riding task ie; moto, desert.. find the side by side comparison to a suzuki 500.. it had a power band as wide as a hair on a gnats a$$.. The Elsinore does tooo! There was off- idle - & ON. The Japanese bikes were like a 'light switch'. The Huskys have a smoother power band, handling, & frame.

It was known that rings had to be replaced in a Honda Elsinore 'about' (I an guessing here because I dont want to look it up in my Elsinore manual) every 4-6 motos.. ok so .. pull the engine jug & replace rings vs fork seals...Yes Husky needed rings replaced too...but my point is we knew this too.
When truely dissecting the comparison...what would you rather upgrade to?...a new foam filter or a Rickman Frame?.. (Rickman made great frames & used Montessa & Bultaco engines). If I recall Bultaco & Montessa also built some bikes on Rickman Frames.
Clearly a $20.00 - $35.00 foam filter is a more reasonable upgrade than a frame.
All these bikes had their 'problems' back then but for Great handling, smoothe power band and good chrome moly frames THAT is what we paid for!! because all fork seals need replacing just like an air filter.. But who wants to replace a frame!

Not sure what point you are trying to make (nor do I want to keep beating a dead horse,so lets not...) I'm passing on "other" peoples magazine article takes and choosing to repeat what THEY said way back when. I personally take it ALL with a GIANT grain of salt...

 

[mike328]

LOL... Sweenster... I agree, John is a Purist & cranky..I call him on it!! & my point above was there was all kinds of propaganda... individually we needed to sort thru the BS..and find our own comfort $$ zone..& what we were willing to give up in exchange for something else...

 

[NFA1934]

Hi Mark,
I've got a 450WR also,with the Bing 54. I suggest measuring the clearance between the slide and carb bore before replacing the slide. I found the Bing's clearance to be .004",which is almost twice what I've measured in both new and used mikunis. I chose to rebuild the Bing,as I wanted to preserve the originality as much as possible. IMO,Bings are just not as well (tightly) made as the Miks....pourus castings,etc., are a part of the Bing's
'charisma' (lol). I found the fellow at the 'Bing Int'l' to be great to ask questions of and buy parts from....I replaced all internals(other than the float) for less than $100 including shipping.
Regarding "..cranky and rude...the only game in town,etc.,..." That certainly is the situation,unfortunately....Vendors behaving this way should remember that their 'business',whether large or small,is absolutely under the category of " Non-Life Essential Commodities" or, more accurately- Bullshit Purchases. No one NEEDS to purchase Husky (or Bultaco,or Penton,orYamaha,or...) parts.....while there is likely some that need to sell parts..

 

[NFA1934]

Mark,
I read your comments about lighting improvements. I'm investigating the same issue presently with my WR450,and have found some alternatives to the MZB et al systems,depending upon how much of an improvement you want to have over the OEM unit. The lighting coil is rated 35/5 watts (headlight/tail),and can be rewound to provide 60 watts. If you should decide to upgrade to a halogen bulb,these are available in 6V and lower wattages such as 35/35. With the rewound coil, 1157 dual filament bulb for the run/brake lighting will suffice. increasing the coils capacity allows the use of a halogen bulb and dual filament brake light bulb,or possibly one of the LED light boards or LED bulbs. As you know,the 450's system is AC,very simple,very low output. This all would be better/easier if 12V DC with a small battery....almost nothing here in the US is 6V nowadays...guys with old 6V cars have provided the stimulus for 6V lighting upgrades...vintge scooter/moped parts sources are another.

 

[ronn450]

First of all on this carb. issue . I have had Bing's on my WR400 , My 74 CR250 mag and 77 CR125 Huskys with no issues . The mikuni did not come till 1978 just to please the public . I also have had some Maicos , and all of those bikes come with bing 54 carb. also and I do not see any body removing them and the 81 490 maico the most popular bike runs that set up . Far as shocks nobody kept the stock shocks on in those days . And far as dirt bike mag. goes they were working for the big 4 . Go talk to some of the old time riders and there set ups they will tell you the truth and take a look on Any Sunday watch Steve , Malcolm and Mert . Biggest thing is alot of people did not understand is working with the Bing Carbs.